That would be nice. Does anyone know what the sport mode in MT BRZs now does? Just throttle mapping or what? Does it give it the old GR throttle mapping or does it maybe make the throttle more responsive?

 

The only solution I have seen to remap the throttle is through a tune.

 

I imagine so. CSG gave me the BRZ throttle map instead of the GR86 one on my tune when I asked for it. I imagine any tuner could do the same with the new map once they have it. That will effectively void your power train warranty if you care about that though.

 

I spoke with my local service advisor about getting the hakone throttle map for linearity and he said. No

 

How would anyone know until a tuner gets their hands on one? I very much doubt it's anything but software tuning but you'll have to wait until the '25s are on the road.

A dealer isn't going to flash a '25 throttle map on an older MY unless there is a TSB or recall to do so for some reason. Hell, a bunch of them won't/can't figure out turning off the ASC in Techstream according to some member's posts. Which is a totally normal and easy thing to do.

 

Nobody has driven the 2025 yet...so we don't even know if it's a positive improvement yet, but you already decided you want it that badly?? Not every improvement is a GOOD improvement. So let's figure that part out first...I sure as hell don't want their new EyeSight system anywhere near my '23 6MT twin.

 

With luck, there might be some info from what the latest tune is doing to improve throttle response for ECUtek to replicate. So far only removing the clutch sensor makes any notable difference to the throttle delay.

 

I have experience with Subaru tuning and I would bet a substantial amount of money that they are just changing the requested torque to throttle plate table and the accelerator pedal to requested torque table to achieve whatever their marketing quote means and there would be no physical changes.
Without actually seeing the tables I can guess The problem on the current cars is they screwed up the mapping of the pedal and throttle plate vs low RPM,load and pedal movement. Throttle to pedal input works ok at higher rpm and loads, so I assume it was some anti emissions attempt by Subaru or maybe just oversight.
Subaru have a track history of doing this on WRX cars as well as last Gen and also using aggressive throttle to pedal curves to make the cars seem punchy down low.

 

so I assume it was some anti emissions attempt by Subaru or maybe just oversight.
Subaru have a track history of doing this on WRX cars as well as last Gen and also using aggressive throttle to pedal curves to make the cars seem punchy down low.

Oh you know its some emissions BS. That's a Subaru calling card. Insufferable drivability for a fraction of a % improvement on emissions.

My main doubt about the 25's throttle being significantly better or different is that a big change to those tables you mention (I agree that's most likely all they'll do) could affect the emissions certification stuff. Hard to imagine them spending the necessary $ to re-do that, but who knows? Maybe the effect is small enough, or it's easy/cheap enough to make the change.

I talked to my dealer again recently about updating my car to the 25MY SW. The 2 most likely ways the improvements could come to prior MY cars:

1. Toyota launches a Customer Support Program to update older cars to give them the newer benefits. Not unheard of, but quite unlikely in my opinion. These are like TSBs, usually put in place to help solve actual issues and not just give existing customers new benefits.

2. The default latest SW for prior MY cars gets the features added. So you'd bring your car to the dealer and say 'please update my car SW.' They would connect Tech Stream and it will see if there is a newer SW available for the car. If so, they can update. There would probably be no way to know if or how the new SW might be different. In my experience (Subaru) it could even make things worse! Considering we will probably have to pay for it since it's not a warranty claim type thing, it will be a while before I try that. But I will probably try.

 

Another case of running away with internet hysteria without even driving the car. The throttle maps between the BRZ\86 are slightly different to give the cars a different feel. Its software, it takes no money to give each car their own driving characteristics. Neither of them is great. The GR is worse than the BRZ. Neither is nearly as big of a deal as all this makes it sound. They are tuned like every other low powered drive by wire car on the market. Inflated initial tip in, then very little change anywhere past 50% throttle position. No need to be hunting for solutions to "problems" that dont exist.
Also dont forget to never turn right, take your oil pan off weekly to inspect\remove RTV, replace your turn signal stalk because BMW style is from the 7th layer of hell, run 4 weights heavier engine oil, 3 weights heavier in the trans, only move up 1 weight in the diff, swap the manual center arm rest for the AT version, disable tracking\data system, never rev above 4k rpm, dont exceed 80mph, certainly never use track mode.
Do we see the point? 1st get the car. 2nd drive the car.

 

Another case of running away with internet hysteria without even driving the car. The throttle maps between the BRZ\86 are slightly different to give the cars a different feel. Its software, it takes no money to give each car their own driving characteristics. Neither of them is great. The GR is worse than the BRZ. Neither is nearly as big of a deal as all this makes it sound. They are tuned like every other low powered drive by wire car on the market. Inflated initial tip in, then very little change anywhere past 50% throttle position. No need to be hunting for solutions to "problems" that dont exist.
Also dont forget to never turn right, take your oil pan off weekly to inspect\remove RTV, replace your turn signal stalk because BMW style is from the 7th layer of hell, run 4 weights heavier engine oil, 3 weights heavier in the trans, only move up 1 weight in the diff, swap the manual center arm rest for the AT version, disable tracking\data system, never rev above 4k rpm, dont exceed 80mph, certainly never use track mode.
Do we see the point. 1st get the car. 2nd drive the car.

While for the most part I agree this throttle programming issue is overblown, it really can matter when driving the car at the limit. I instruct people regularly, and it's damn near impossible to teach them how to gently accelerate post-apex without it feeling like they just stomp on the go pedal.

 

Jumping back and forth between GR86 and my other manual cars it is very obvious that they did something wrong. It's really the only flaw the car has in my eyes, so yeah I want to fix it.

Clearly someone else felt this way because I didn't cry to Toyota about it but they made changes hah

 

FWIW-

 

TLDW: He says he really doesn't notice much of a difference in throttle mapping. He's a jounalist not an owner, he hasnt driven the last model year since last year. A back to back comparison would be needed to really tell if theres an appreciable difference.

 

He just had a '24 GR86 PP 4 months ago, BRZ tS 5 months ago, has previously driven most '22-'24 GR86/BRZ permutations, and used to own a 1st gen.

So I think he has a better handle on the twins than many other YT reviewers. But you're right, a back to back comparison, on the same day, by the same driver would be better.

 

He just copied my opinion anyway Must be a regular on the forums!

 

Does anyone have updated opinions on the throttle mapping for the 2025 GR86, base or premium? Is it different than the previous model years? Is it better?

 

If it’s helpful I’ll share that I drove a 2025 GR86 MT Premium nearly back to back with a 2024 BRZ tS. The 2025 GR86 had a noticeably un-linear “faster” pedal than the 2024 BRZ. I feel if they made any changes to the GR86 pedal mapping it couldn’t be that big a change. I much preferred the linear throttle of the BRZ.

 

The BRZ is better in that way. And it still sucks. Get a tune for the real solution.

 

It is much easier to hill and toe rev-matching downshift compared to GT86. I love the response. However, I don't know why there is a big difference in reverse gear, which feels the same as GT86's forward gear.

The graphs show no big difference in over 5K rpm between 25' GR and BRZ.

Throttle Response Comparison: BRZ vs. GR86
Graph: GR86 | BRZ
(Original image, please credit if used)

 

These are really interesting graphs if accurate! Crazy how diametrically opposed the two cars are at super low RPM.

Not knowing much about throttle openings and how proportional they affect engine power etc - Would the more linear line of the GR86 mean that it's actually smoother in those middle RPM bands?

This to me almost makes it seem like the 86 is actually the more "balanced" accel response of the two cars. Despite many saying that the 86 pedal is basically just an on-off switch (which it definitely is down low!).

 

The characteristics of a butterfly valve vs engine rpm is actually close to what the GR throttle map is.

At low rpm, a small crack of the throttle actually does give "almost wot" effect to the engine, for a normal cable throttle/carb. Cos thats all the NA motor can/need to suck at that rpm.

 

Yet another reason to get the BRZ over the GR86.

 

Looks like GR86 owners in Japan will be able to apply the new throttle tuning to their cars:

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Exhibiting at Tokyo Auto Salon 2025 | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing (TGR) announced today that it is exhibiting at the three-day Tokyo Auto Salon 2025 being held at Makuhari Messe (in Chiba, Japan) from January 10 (today) to 12, 2025, mainly displaying vehicles and vehicle parts under the main theme of "Car-making at Nürburgring", which is...

global.toyota

Since its launch in 2021, the GR86 has been well-received by many customers as a car with the unique driving feel of a GR vehicle. Its partial upgrade in 2024 reflects learnings from various motorsports in which the GR86 continues to compete. Based on feedback from professional drivers who hone cars in the extreme environment of racing, the throttle characteristics were modified (in manual transmission vehicles) and the engine-speed tolerance range during downshifting was expanded (in automatic transmission vehicles) to improve acceleration response and enable quicker downshifts, resulting in the further refinement of the unique driving feel of a GR vehicle. To enable pre-upgrade GR86 owners to experience this evolved driving performance, software upgrades "GR86 PERFORMANCE SOFTWARE for MT" / "GR86 PERFORMANCE SOFTWARE for AT" are to be sold*2 through GR Garage locations from the spring of 2025. So that those who continue to drive the GR86 can enjoy it for many years to come, TGR intends to continue supporting the evolution of its customers' beloved cars.

Obviously, big TBD whether anything like this comes to US or elsewhere.

Thanks @Jaron95 and @InitialGR86

 

Looks like GR86 owners in Japan will be able to apply the new throttle tuning to their cars:

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing Exhibiting at Tokyo Auto Salon 2025 | Corporate | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

TOYOTA GAZOO Racing (TGR) announced today that it is exhibiting at the three-day Tokyo Auto Salon 2025 being held at Makuhari Messe (in Chiba, Japan) from January 10 (today) to 12, 2025, mainly displaying vehicles and vehicle parts under the main theme of "Car-making at Nürburgring", which is...

global.toyota

Obviously, big TBD whether anything like this comes to US or elsewhere.

Thanks @Jaron95 and @InitialGR86

My read of this part...

Its partial upgrade in 2024 reflects learnings from various motorsports in which the GR86 continues to compete. Based on feedback from professional drivers who hone cars in the extreme environment of racing, the throttle characteristics were modified (in manual transmission vehicles) and the engine-speed tolerance range during downshifting was expanded (in automatic transmission vehicles) to improve acceleration response and enable quicker downshifts, resulting in the further refinement of the unique driving feel of a GR vehicle.​

...suggests that all 2025 GR86s may already have the upgraded throttle mapping. Wish it was more clear if that was the case or if that just applied to Hokone edition vehicles.

 

Is this data specific to the Hakone edition or all 2025 GR86? Was this changed for all GR86 going from 2022-2024 to 2025?