[fredzy]

so I assume it was some anti emissions attempt by Subaru or maybe just oversight.
Subaru have a track history of doing this on WRX cars as well as last Gen and also using aggressive throttle to pedal curves to make the cars seem punchy down low.

Oh you know its some emissions BS. That's a Subaru calling card. Insufferable drivability for a fraction of a % improvement on emissions.

My main doubt about the 25's throttle being significantly better or different is that a big change to those tables you mention (I agree that's most likely all they'll do) could affect the emissions certification stuff. Hard to imagine them spending the necessary $ to re-do that, but who knows? Maybe the effect is small enough, or it's easy/cheap enough to make the change.

I talked to my dealer again recently about updating my car to the 25MY SW. The 2 most likely ways the improvements could come to prior MY cars:

1. Toyota launches a Customer Support Program to update older cars to give them the newer benefits. Not unheard of, but quite unlikely in my opinion. These are like TSBs, usually put in place to help solve actual issues and not just give existing customers new benefits.

2. The default latest SW for prior MY cars gets the features added. So you'd bring your car to the dealer and say 'please update my car SW.' They would connect Tech Stream and it will see if there is a newer SW available for the car. If so, they can update. There would probably be no way to know if or how the new SW might be different. In my experience (Subaru) it could even make things worse! Considering we will probably have to pay for it since it's not a warranty claim type thing, it will be a while before I try that. But I will probably try.

 

[fredzy]

Jumping back and forth between GR86 and my other manual cars it is very obvious that they did something wrong. It's really the only flaw the car has in my eyes, so yeah I want to fix it.

Clearly someone else felt this way because I didn't cry to Toyota about it but they made changes hah

 

[fredzy]

My son has a 2024 civic Si and my co-worker has a 2024 integra type S. I absolutely despise the throttle on both. Worst pedal feel and and least linear delivery I have felt in a long time. If you put your foot near the throttle or even look at it the revs skyrocket. There is zero pedal resistance and the tip in is initially flat, then it surges up as soon as you pass 10% input to make that tiny little engine build some boost, then it runs out of steam and flattens out again. Other than the slightly aggressive tip in, I dont think ours is that bad. It can definitely still be modulated with good control. It just takes less throttle than you think at 1st.

I wonder if part of it had to do with drive mode you were in. One annoyance I had with the Type R is that any mode aside from +R for the throttle gives very unnatural and unpredictable control. +R mode was a little touchy but overall easy to get used to and predictable above all else, so it was the only mode I used. It was definitely easier to control than the 86.

Yet another thing I love about the GR86 - there are no special modes to hassle with, just jump in and drive. Technically there is the track mode button but that is functionally just an extension of TC on/off.

 

[fredzy]

It is much easier to hill and toe rev-matching downshift compared to GT86. I love the response. However, I don't know why there is a big difference in reverse gear, which feels the same as GT86's forward gear.

The graphs show no big difference in over 5K rpm between 25' GR and BRZ.

Throttle Response Comparison: BRZ vs. GR86
Graph: GR86 | BRZ
(Original image, please credit if used)

View attachment 58240

wow, I guess I hadn't seen a plot of the GR86's low RPM throttle like this. That truly does look on/off. Doesn't make sense at all, until you remember that the moment the revs start to climb as you press the pedal, the curve starts to shift.

What I see here is if you plotted a curve of %throttle opening vs. accelerator position for an actual accel position vs. time press of the pedal it would look somewhat reasonable, but for 10 different stabs of the throttle you would get 10 pretty different curves. Which jives with the inconsistency so many people report.

New theory: I really don't have much trouble with clean heel-toe when driving at 8 10ths or above - on the track mainly. Because for the most part you're asking for the engine to accelerate as quickly as possible for a brief moment and the nuanced in-between revs aren't important. So maybe the tuning was about optimizing for that?