[TRU-BOOST]

I cant say I know the answer. But knowing that it is doing more work should add up to it wearing faster. But is it going to lead to a bad clutch 10k sooner or 100k sooner..? I think there are too many variables in every persons driving style to ever really know. For every 1 thing an individual does properly there is probably something else they do "wrong", myself included. I know I have some bad habits, but do them anyways for the tradeoff of having fun.

 

[Lou]

I cant say I know the answer. But knowing that it is doing more work should add up to it wearing faster. But is it going to lead to a bad clutch 10k sooner or 100k sooner..? I think there are too many variables in every persons driving style to ever really know. For every 1 thing an individual does properly there is probably something else they do "wrong", myself included. I know I have some bad habits, but do them anyways for the tradeoff of having fun.

Everything on a car can be considered a consumable, right?

 

[BlyatRZ]

Everything on a car can be considered a consumable, right?

Some things are more consumable than others lol...

That said, I'd rather replace brake pads than a clutch. Rev matching done right, with a throttle blip and gearchange / heel toe, has little wear on the clutch. Probably as much wear as upshifting causes. I will generally engine brake / rev match / heel toe 6>5>4>3, sometimes I skip 5 and go 6>4>3. After 3 I normally start to brake and will clutch in as I come far enough down in engine speed.

The statement of bad habits on the street translates to bad habits on the track is absolutely true. I know people who come into a turn, clutch in the whole turn, and grab the gear on the way out. Coasting through a turn is the WORST thing you can do, you have no control over the speed of the vehicle.

 

[LacroixDP]

I suppose this raises a related question that may shed some light on why this is debated. My question would be how many of us downshift gears while decelerating? Lets say coming to a stop sign on a road where you were doing 50mph. There is the crowd that will pop it into neutral from a block away and coast to the stop sign while on the brakes, come to a complete stop, then start over. There is the other crowd that will blip down every gear and not touch the brakes until the very end of the stop. I honestly do a little bit of both depending on what car I am driving, how the traffic is, weather conditions, etc. That is something that was drilled into my head when taught how to ride a motorcycle. You never want to be coasting out of gear. You get your downshifting done while decelerating and never during or after cornering. You want to be able to stab the throttle to make an evasive maneuver in an optimal gear at all times. You cant do that while slowing down in neutral.

I was always taught to be in gear unless at rest in case you need to move, so I alway heel/toe shift through the gears slowing down to a stop. I never coast unless its waiting at a drive-thru with a slope that rolls me down to the next window.

 

[DaffyDOHC]

This is the kind of car you gas through the corner. Heel toe is still a new concept for me though. I can only do rev matching without braking.

 

[Dan]

Coasting through a turn is the WORST thing you can do, you have no control over the speed of the vehicle.

Absolutely agreed. Not only do you have no ability to control speed, you have no ability to control weight transfer.

Say you slow down for a turn and try to coast through in neutral. You've now shifted the weight forward with no way to shift it back rearward with the throttle. If you start to oversteer, which we all know these cars love to do, you can only rely on steering input to correct the slide and you'll have a very small window to do so before you're past the point of no return. Even if you do catch the slide with the steering, you've likely had to widen your line to the point where you're now out of your lane entirely. Add cold and/or wet pavement into the mix and you're just asking to spin/slide off the road or into something.

Sorry, that thought exercise got a little off topic.

 

[GusChiggins]

What the fuck is this now? Are we driving semi's? Are we driving cars from the 60's with no synchromesh and straight-cut gears? Please finish your thought.

Fast and the Furious reference. It was a joke.

I do double clutch into second on my FR-S when it's cold and the transmission hasn't warmed up. And also if im downshifting into 2nd at a high rate of speed. But that's just me.

 

[Lou]

I do double clutch into second on my FR-S when it's cold and the transmission hasn't warmed up. And also if im downshifting into 2nd at a high rate of speed. But that's just me.

That, I get! 1-2 was hard and 2-1 was impossible in sub-zero. I think that's no longer a thing, though. Thanks to all the KY jelly in the new OEM gear oil.

 

[twlai]

The invention of synchromesh means that double clutching is unnecessary leg action. And I’ve never worn out a set of syncros on any car I’ve owned in the last 46 years.

On my 2002 WRX, I worn out the 2nd gear synchro after ~3-4yrs (100k miles) of driving.
Going into 2nd become difficult without rev match and double clutch....

Just my 2cents from my experience....
maybe now is the synchro is beefier...

😅

 

[TRU-BOOST]

Getting off track, but to add to the rev match topic I have seen tons of people not execute it "properly". It seems fairly common for people to .....
clutch in, shift to lower gear, blip throttle, then release the clutch. That method will smooth the shift and spare the clutch, but it isnt doing any favors to the synchros. If you can make the actual gear change as close as possible to the target RPM, that means the synchros have less work to do as well. So my method involves basically all those movements at the same time. I am blipping the throttle while the shifter is in the neutral space during the gear change. As soon as its in the desired gear I am already coming off the clutch. It definitely took me longer than normal to get the timing right on this car because the throttle is delayed and the mapping is super aggressive at the same time.

 

[GusChiggins]

That, I get! 1-2 was hard and 2-1 was impossible in sub-zero. I think that's no longer a thing, though. Thanks to all the KY jelly in the new OEM gear oil.

KY Jelly

I still have a long wait for my brz but it would be nice if the transmission was a bit more cooperative in the mornings.

 

[Lou]

KY Jelly

I still have a long wait for my brz but it would be nice if the transmission was a bit more cooperative in the mornings.

I got it a month ago so I still don't know about winter cold. But the already good MT is really much improved. I said elsewhere that it feels like someone hand-filed all the sharp edges down. No resistance anywhere anymore. It's perfect.

 

[Duchess]

I haven't had to double-clutch since my '90 Legacy if I was going into 1st where it would be over 2500 rpm (not something I did often) and my 260Z required it for 2nd gear when cold.

I never heard of anyone going to neutral for a turn and I can't imagine why anyone would. I would also think it might not be good for the engine with the oil pump at idle rpm and a lateral load, though probably not enough of a problem to ever show itself and I doubt anyone who'd corner in neutral would be putting a lot of lateral load on it, either, but there's just no sense in the move.

 

[Timster]

It’s not just about the clutch. Better for car balance coming into corners without the rears trying to speed up the engine and protects the internals of the gearbox long term (you will only find out once over 200k though). The shifter always moves into its position smoother when the revs are matched too, speeding up downshifts.

 

[pitter]

The invention of synchromesh means that double clutching is unnecessary leg action. And I’ve never worn out a set of syncros on any car I’ve owned in the last 46 years.

double clutching is essential in this car with a cold transmission IMO. feels like crap to push through that 2nd gear synchro until it's warmed up. not saying it would significantly reduce wear but it's just a more pleasant experience. I double clutch every gear for the first 5 mins or so of driving

the shifter in this is pointedly subaru and feels like a bag of rocks, but at least it's a short and direct bag of rocks.

 

[Mario0617]

As a Florida bro, I might not be the best resource. But when the trans is “cold” (as cold as it gets which is like 100F or so by 10-11am) 1-2 is totally fine. It feels better after a couple miles but generally it feels totally okay. On the rev matching - just do it. If you’re not rev matching, you’re using your clutch to bring up your engine speed on downshifts. The longer the clutch has to grab and speed the engine up, the more it wears.

clutches are like brakes. If your foot is on the brake, the pads are wearing. Clutch is the same way. The less you use it (while still driving smoothly) the easier it is on it.

 

[RBH58]

As a Florida bro, I might not be the best resource. But when the trans is “cold” (as cold as it gets which is like 100F or so by 10-11am) 1-2 is totally fine. It feels better after a couple miles but generally it feels totally okay. On the rev matching - just do it. If you’re not rev matching, you’re using your clutch to bring up your engine speed on downshifts. The longer the clutch has to grab and speed the engine up, the more it wears.

clutches are like brakes. If your foot is on the brake, the pads are wearing. Clutch is the same way. The less you use it (while still driving smoothly) the easier it is on it.

Same here. I live in Australia but the same latitude as Tampa FL. 😂 I noticed the effect of cold gearbox oil on my 2014, I really don’t on my 2022.

 

[Mario0617]

Don’t have to think about cold oil if your ambient temps are always hot anyways taps forehead

I honestly joke with my Aussie friends that Florida is more like Australia than they want to admit. Super hot basically all the time, tons of critters that may want to kill you in your sleep, and we even have our own version of bogans out in the swamp LOL

 

[Duchess]

My experience with the transmission is completely different. Even in cold weather in New England, I had no need to double clutch and the shifter is precise and positive. It's not as good as a Honda, but it's not a night-and-day difference—more like the bolt action on a budget rifle rather than something high end. My old Subarus (pre-POS EJ25 era) were notchy, but in an industrial manner rather than an unrefined way that I found enjoyable. Now, the Camry I have is like a bag of rocks and gelatin, though the motor mounts are shot to be fair.

 

[RBH58]

Don’t have to think about cold oil if your ambient temps are always hot anyways taps forehead

I honestly joke with my Aussie friends that Florida is more like Australia than they want to admit. Super hot basically all the time, tons of critters that may want to kill you in your sleep, and we even have our own version of bogans out in the swamp LOL

FL reminds me so much of SE Queensland.