[TRU-BOOST]

I second that my trans does not have any cold weather problems. It is obviously a little notchy in extremely low temps, but never any grinding or gear lock outs. As stated though there are situations I double clutch just out of habit. Is it needed.... probably not. Is it going to hurt.... absolutely not.

 

[RBH58]

I second that my trans does not have any cold weather problems. It is obviously a little notchy in extremely low temps, but never any grinding or gear lock outs. As stated though there are situations I double clutch just out of habit. Is it needed.... probably not. Is it going to hurt.... absolutely not.

I had an NC Miata/MX5, an Abarth 124, and a 2014 BRZ (pretty much the same box) and they were all bit baulky on 1 & 2 when cold. But you just learned not to hurry them for the first 5-10 minutes. It never worried me…I just put it down as “character”. The moment the engine was warm enough to start driving spiritedly, the gearbox was ready. Yep…I double clutched these cars when cold sometimes (especially if I needed to pick up 1st). I honestly haven’t had an issue with my 2022 BRZ.

 

[Dan]

Ken Gushi's take on this topic:
"You always want to rev-match to the gear you're about to go into, otherwise you risk the car bogging and lurching, which is both bad for the vehicle and your lap times."

 

[Lou]

Ken Gushi's take on this topic:
"You always want to rev-match to the gear you're about to go into, otherwise you risk the car bogging and lurching, which is both bad for the vehicle and your lap times."

No lap timers around my town. So I'll risk it. Thanks, Ken.

 

[TRU-BOOST]

Its in the dash settings. There is a stopwatch feature. What do you think thats for...!?

 

[Lou]

Its in the dash settings. There is a stopwatch feature. What do you think thats for...!?

If it's not beacon-based, it's just another useless boy-racer toy like a popping exhaust, a blow-off valve, a G-meter, or... auto rev-match.

 

[pitter]

you might have a complex lol

 

[Lou]

I'm sorry. Did I offend? You guys are big users of the G-meter?

In my quiet family neighborhood, modified cars and loud sportscars in general get the stinkeye. Plus, my driving style is generally not appreciated. I don't need more ways to draw attention and be labelled as a menace. Auto rev-match would be just one such thing.

I just went from a white BRZ to Ignition Red. So I'm slowly working through my complex

 

[pitter]

no one's offended. you're just a funny guy. the exhaust is pretty quiet, would anyone really notice if you were rev matching normal shifts? does it matter if they would? you may not like rev-matching, but it makes for a more smooth and pleasant driving experience, even if everything is kept at low RPM. even simple TC automatics rev-match these days

after driving the CTR, my opinion on auto rev-matching changed completely. I used to think I'd rather do it myself, but just putting around in that car with the auto rev-match on was a super nice experience. it's quick and perfect every time.

 

[Lou]

no one's offended. you're just a funny guy. the exhaust is pretty quiet, would anyone really notice if you were rev matching normal shifts? does it matter if they would? you may not like rev-matching, but it makes for a more smooth and pleasant driving experience, even if everything is kept at low RPM. even simple TC automatics rev-match these days

after driving the CTR, my opinion on auto rev-matching changed completely. I used to think I'd rather do it myself, but just putting around in that car with the auto rev-match on was a super nice experience. it's quick and perfect every time.

You have to admit, though, that auto-rev match exists not to get more more miles out of your clutch (a car maker spending more to make their car last longer. C'mon!) but purely as a novelty. I'm sure it's real fun for the first five minutes.

And now, we're exactly back on topic

 

[TRU-BOOST]

Correct. Auto rev match exists because most people actually suck at driving manual. I still dont see what is menacing about rev matching downshifts. Every car with an automatic does it while decelerating coming to a stop sign.

 

[Hachi Electronics]

If it's not beacon-based, it's just another useless boy-racer toy like a popping exhaust, a blow-off valve, a G-meter, or... auto rev-match.

Man’s mental image of himself is bunta fujiwara but he can’t handle rev matching. News at 11.

 

[Lou]

Downshifting without rev-matching is quite possibly the stupidest idea i’ve ever heard.

Man’s mental image of himself is bunta fujiwara but he can’t handle rev matching. News at 11.

Another abrasive answer there, big guy.

My comment was tongue in cheek, as always. But, really, a timer and a g-meter? If you need that, then you already have real telemetry. As for poppin exhausts and blow-off valves, that's a scene - not mine but probably yours by the sound of it. And back to auto-rev match - a novelty: if you're real serious about your rev-matching, I'm pretty sure you'd rather do it yourself. I rev-match when driving in anger at the track. I don't bother when braking in town and downshifting at 3000 rpm. Go ahead if it makes you happy. But under those conditions, don't think it's protecting your clutch.

 

[Lou]

Voting is 2:1

I'm in the minority but certainly not alone.

 

[86GRToyota86GR]

I have been in a lot of manual vehicles with different drivers and not many of them totally rev matched all the time. I know I don't rev match all the time and doubt most on here do all the time. Just being honest.

 

[TRU-BOOST]

Again, I think this is a case of what question are we really asking? The question as written says "will the clutch last longer if you rev match your everyday downshifts"
The answer to that is an undebatable YES. If you are downshifting puting less wear in the clutch will obviously make it last longer.
The question more people seem to be discussing is if they downshift at all while decelerating.
So obviously if you arent downshifting as you approach a stop you wont be rev matching. If you are downshifting and making the clutch do the work rather than matching revs its a bad habit, bad technique, and more wear on the clutch. Its undebatable.
The only real question left to answer is, how much faster will improper downshifting actually wear the clutch?" And that is a question that cannot be answered unless it was an experiment done by a machine. No 2 drivers are the same. I may rev match every gear, but I also drop 3 gears at once and no lift shift on a regular basis. So if my uch fails before somebody elses who doesnt downshift properly we cant say that was exactly apples to apples.

 

[Lou]

Again, I think this is a case of what question are we really asking? The question as written says "will the clutch last longer if you rev match your everyday downshifts"
The answer to that is an undebatable YES. If you are downshifting puting less wear in the clutch will obviously make it last longer.
The question more people seem to be discussing is if they downshift at all while decelerating.
So obviously if you arent downshifting as you approach a stop you wont be rev matching. If you are downshifting and making the clutch do the work rather than matching revs its a bad habit, bad technique, and more wear on the clutch. Its undebatable.
The only real question left to answer is, how much faster will improper downshifting actually wear the clutch?" And that is a question that cannot be answered unless it was an experiment done by a machine. No 2 drivers are the same. I may rev match every gear, but I also drop 3 gears at once and no lift shift on a regular basis. So if my uch fails before somebody elses who doesnt downshift properly we cant say that was exactly apples to apples.

Maybe the question could have been better stated.

But I still contend that there is no significant negative effect in the conditions I described. That could be taken to mean "not statistically significant" if you want. By your reasoning, the guy who always puts it in neutral while he waits at a red light will have his clutch last longer. (Please no "You keep it in gear with your foot on the clutch? Stupidest thing I ever heard!") Or the guy who never revs past 4500. Or the guy who lives in a rural area with fewer stop signs. Or the guy who lives in a flat state. In theory, yes. In practice, difficult to show given all the confounding variables.

It's a wear item. I have no fear, I'll easily get 60K miles in 90% urban, very spirited driving. And then I'll replace it when the time comes. And when I reach for the $800, I doubt I'll think: "Man, I should have been gentler." Same thing with brakes and tires. (Except that with tires, I never even come close to getting the promised mileage!)

Maybe I should stop engine braking altogether and save my rings...

Final note: people rev match on a track to prevent shifting from upsetting balance too much. They don't do it with drivetrain longevity in mind.

 

[TRU-BOOST]

Oh lord did you really just say you keep it in gear with your foot on the clutch at a stop...!?
That is the killer of throw out bearings. Its a real thing.

 

[Lou]

Oh lord did you really just say you keep it in gear with your foot on the clutch at a stop...!?
That is the killer of throw out bearings. Its a real thing.

Yes! For all of a minute, too!

(And when the cross-traffic goes yellow, I hold it around the friction point and blip. When I get the green, heavy throttle and clutch slip over the first ten yards. Is there any other way?)

For a guy who says "break it in like you stole it", you worry about the little stuff. Do you regularly see much life left on the clutch plates by the time the throw out bearing goes?

 

[TRU-BOOST]

Well, I dont feel engine internals are wearable parts. Keep your oil clean and they will last. That few seconds here few seconds there of intentional clutch wear adds up over the years. If you are OK with a clutch only lasting 60k miles, knock your socks off. If I burnt one up in that amount of time I would be embarrassed. I have had several cars go over 200k on a stock clutch and throw out bearing. I have a 500hp speed 3 that runs slicks and nitrous still all stock driveline. I suppose if you plan on tearing up a clutch in 60k you dont have to worry about a throw out bearing.