[TRU-BOOST]

Would you mind explaining why "Moving to something thicker without making any changes to the cooling system will then make oil temps even hotter under the same conditions"?

Its sounds funny because of how we think of oils as a lubricant to lower friction. The reality is that oil is still a fluid that CREATES friction while in motion. More viscosity creates more friction and friction creates heat. It is amplified in the high friction areas of the engine like bearings. So even though the oil itself may have better protective properties and higher visc that will ensure greater film strength it will also make those high friction areas run hotter than they would with a thinner oil. Even with a cooler that cools the oil itself very effectively, those surfaces may still run hotter than they would with a thinner fluid.
This is where the balancing act comes in. Under normal conditions I am confident a 5w20 does the job just as well as anything ticker. Under extreme use I would rather have the extra film strength and pressure and not worry so much about bearing temps.

 

[vincentyang246]

Thanks all for explaining the fundamentals so clearly!



Do you think this applies to solely 0w-20 or even 5w-20 too? If so, would it be correct to interpret that even daily driving would benefit from running a Xw-30 oil? I could see that most owners that don't necessarily track / autocross their cars still drive more aggressively than the average commuter.

I could also understand how it's hard to provide a single, universal answer to my question above about oil weight for DD. Logging oil temperatures for each use case (e.g., daily driving, autocross, track driving) + accounting for ambient temperature is essential to making the "right" decision.

I definitely have a lot more reading to do...

I mean 20 weight's viscosity is your ceiling. It will certainly be not as good as a 30 weight at a certain temperature range.

I would to want race on a 20 weight, if I can keep my oil temp at exactly 190F. 20 weight is more free flowing, and I'm loosing less power to the heat that cost by heavier oil.

But at the end of the day, it's not possible to keep oil temp at 190F with WOT.

 

[vincentyang246]

I wouldn't say 20 weight is absolutely the Achille's Heel of the engine.

You just need to know its working windows.

If street driving, you're only seeing 190F cruising. There's nothing wrong to do a pull or two. It's a different story when you bring that oil temp to 230F and do a pull or two.

Cus then your oil pressure will be really low.

According to @TRU-BOOST , 5w20 will hold its viscosity better than 0w20 with heat cycles.

Oil can lose its viscosity after you keep beating on them, hence the reason why we need to change oil.

 

[GooseMan]

Seems like the TLDR is that using 5w-20 on the street is definitely more safe than 0w-20 (especially in my case where I'm being the BRZ oil temp gauge reaching ~200-210F even when cruising). And using 5w-30 is a better starting point than 5w-20 for autocross (and track driving). I'll definitely keep an eye on my temps to see if it goes beyond 230/240.

BTW do you all solely rely on the OEM oil temp gauge in the BRZ or have some sort of aftermarket gauge that provides distinct values? I thought I read somewhere that the built in oil temp gauge may read a bit higher than the "true" oil temp values.

 

[Noobtber]

That is surprisingly low oil temp. Mine hovers around 190-200 just cruising down the highway. Any of the harder driving I have done puts temps in the 230-240 range pretty quickly. I have run nothing but 5w20 since day one. So far all my UOAs have looked good. I am working on going a full 5k of mixed driving for 1 last sample before I commit to 5k oil changes going forward.

40 seconds of driving followed by long periods of cooling, plus the factory oil warmer essentially adds additional thermal resistance to the oil imo

 

[anka]

Appreciate you chiming in! I don't have an oil cooler and not necessarily confident I will keep temps below 210F. It seems that I have nothing to lose with 5w-30 (right? lol) and can monitor my temps as needed. If anything, I can always switch to 5w-20 next time around if my temps stay low enough.

FWIW, I expect it to be high 60s/low 70s so not that warm but the event does advertise "a season's worth of seat time in one day" so I'm expecting more stress on the car than a "normal" autocross day where people seem to get 3-5 runs.

(I also wish the BRZ had actual values for oil temps like the GR86 offers in track mode to make things easier haha).

Even if you do way more runs, the chances are they are not going to be back to back, giving ample time for the engine to cool down. I am not sure how high oil temperature can rise in 1 minute long high RPM at 2nd gear.

I actually bought 3 boxes of Magnatec, one each: 0w-20, 5w-20 and 5w-30
My plan is to use the 0w-20 after the break in, and take 1 or 2 auto cross with that and go through the winter. Then move to 5w-20 for spring & summer and more autocross. Finally 5w-30 when its time for some track time. I can see how 5w-30 or 5w-40 might be beneficial on the track, but I don`t think they have too much to offer on an autocross. One thing I wonder is if running the engine with an oil that is not recommended in the manual could cause issues with the warranty. 5w-20 is mentioned to be okay in my car`s manual, so because of that unless I have a strong reason to expect a benefit, I would not want to deviate from that too much.

 

[vincentyang246]

Seems like the TLDR is that using 5w-20 on the street is definitely more safe than 0w-20 (especially in my case where I'm being the BRZ oil temp gauge reaching ~200-210F even when cruising). And using 5w-30 is a better starting point than 5w-20 for autocross (and track driving). I'll definitely keep an eye on my temps to see if it goes beyond 230/240.

BTW do you all solely rely on the OEM oil temp gauge in the BRZ or have some sort of aftermarket gauge that provides distinct values? I thought I read somewhere that the built in oil temp gauge may read a bit higher than the "true" oil temp values.

I have a whole thread dedicated to collecting data on track.

Short version, I have the GJP setup.

I have their ISP gauge displaying live data about the oil temp, water temp, intake temp, air to fuel ratio, and oil pressure. So all the vital information is a few clicks away. I dedicate my driving behavior based on these data.

 

[vincentyang246]

One thing I wonder is if running the engine with an oil that is not recommended in the manual could cause issues with the warranty. 5w-20 is mentioned to be okay in my car`s manual, so because of that unless I have a strong reason to expect a benefit, I would not want to deviate from that too much.

Toyota stealerships would want to deny your warranty anyways if you blow it up on track.

If you have a full sump of oil, they would come up with the excuse that you have reved the engine to redline.

And God forbids, if your oil level is a bit low. They would instantly deny your warranty.

The way I see it is that you're on your own when tracking this thing. Do the basic maintenance on the car when you go on track. (Heavy weight oil, racing brake fluid and racing pads.).

Plus there's no way of telling from Toyota that you have tracked the car with 40 weight, if you swap it out with 20 weight after.

 

[Ritter]

I don’t track the car but I drive it hard on occasion on backroads.

I drained the original 0W-20 from the car at 1500 miles in the fall and replaced it with 5W-20 for winter use. In the spring, I drained the 5W-20 and replaced it with 5W-30 for summer use. I live in an area where winter can get to -20 °F / -7 °C and summer can reach 100+ °F / 38+ °C. I’ll soon be going back to 5W-20 for winter.

I‘m running about 0.5L overfill.

 

[GooseMan]

I have a whole thread dedicated to collecting data on track.

Short version, I have the GJP setup.

I have their ISP gauge displaying live data about the oil temp, water temp, intake temp, air to fuel ratio, and oil pressure. So all the vital information is a few clicks away. I dedicate my driving behavior based on these data.

Oh yeah I found your thread. Really appreciate that strides you're taking to inform us all; I'll definitely be following closely

 

[DirtySpec]

Talking woth Royal Purple about our engines.

Its about the type of oil and not so much the grade.

I would recommend Driven DI20 for autocross. That oil does not break down.

Or

Royal Purple HPS or XPR

That's what I have experience with. HPS never let me down during open lapping

 

[vincentyang246]

Talking woth Royal Purple about our engines.

Its about the type of oil and not so much the grade.

I would recommend Driven DI20 for autocross. That oil does not break down.

Or

Royal Purple HPS or XPR

That's what I have experience with. HPS never let me down during open lapping

Stop trolling

 

[ruturaj1989]

Oil is tricky, you should be looking at actual viscosities and HTHS number if you are seeing high temperatures. As weight only represents that viscosity at either 40 or 100 is in particular range.

Given you are not seeing high temperatures, 210 I assume, I would just run 0w20 with HTHS. This has a good compilation of lots of oil



Track is completely different and I wouldn't run anything other than Mobil1 FS 0w40.

 

[HE86]

I think 10w40 is the right choice if you drive on tracks. I asked Toyota Germany for their ok. also the old engine of the gt86 was ok with this specs….still waiting for Toyotas answer.

 

[vincentyang246]

I think 10w40 is the right choice if you drive on tracks. I asked Toyota Germany for their ok. also the old engine of the gt86 was ok with this specs….still waiting for Toyotas answer. View attachment 36533

Some Taiwanese tunner ran 10w60 for their race series car 😂.

40 weight is my cut off point.

 

[DirtySpec]

Stop trolling

You can call these people yourself instead of asking teens on the internet...

 

[vincentyang246]

You can call these people yourself instead of asking teens on the internet...

You're calling a company directly. Ofc they are going to tell you what benefits them through the phone.

STi recommends 0w40/5w40 for racing application. So you're gonna tell me that the racing department of the company that makes our engine knowing less than some boutique brand oil companies?

Gtfo here man. Stop spreading misinformation, when you had zero data instruments in your car while having less knowledge about the car than the ones who are essentially stress testing the car.

We could always keep our mouths shut, and not giving out these information for free. But at the end of the day who will that benefit? Definitely not the community with guarded informations.

 

[DirtySpec]

I love how I get flamed for oil while ive done more research, owner more new engines and drive more klm than anyone else here.

Ive built race cars, raced cars, owned a speed shop and delt with people in the industry.

But take advice from little timmy. Im sure formula drift taught them a lot.

 

[vincentyang246]

I love how I get flamed for oil while ive done more research, owner more new engines and drive more klm than anyone else here.

Ive built race cars, raced cars, owned a speed shop and delt with people in the industry.

But take advice from little timmy. Im sure formula drift taught them a lot.

Simply anecdotal experience. I'm giving out anecdotal experience as well.

Difference is I had data to back up my opinion. Your data was "I've called a company", "ive built engines".

 

[DirtySpec]

You're calling a company directly. Ofc they are going to tell you what benefits them through the phone.

STi recommends 0w40/5w40 for racing application. So you're gonna tell me that the racing department of the company that makes our engine knowing less than some boutique brand oil companies?

Gtfo here man. Stop spreading misinformation, when you had zero data instruments in your car while having less knowledge about the car than the ones who are essentially stress testing the car.

We could always keep our mouths shut, and not giving out these information for free. But at the end of the day who will that benefit? Definitely not the community with guarded informations.

API is different than a non API oil.

A api oil can not be a racing oil. You think sti runs a API oil.... righttt

Why would RP and Driven and VP and all my contacts tell me that the type of oil not the grade is more important.

How do you think dragsters run the thinest oil possible? Like a 0w16? Because its designed for racing.

I deal with people who actually live a 1/4 mile at a time. Where winning is winning and you do everything mechanicly possible to get that edge over others.

But yall keep puting BC coilovers and 10.5" tires on you 200hp car