I've been doing it in this car for 2 years with 0W-20. It sounds like you'd be running stock tires, so the G forces aren't going to be great enough to warrant any of the oil pressure loss issues (just make sure you're topped up on oil). Even in the heat with dual drivers, my oil always stays below 200 degrees, so I wouldn't be worried.

 

That is surprisingly low oil temp. Mine hovers around 190-200 just cruising down the highway. Any of the harder driving I have done puts temps in the 230-240 range pretty quickly. I have run nothing but 5w20 since day one. So far all my UOAs have looked good. I am working on going a full 5k of mixed driving for 1 last sample before I commit to 5k oil changes going forward.

 

Thank you both for your responses!


I have observed a similar oil temp trend as @TRU-BOOST (currently using 0w-20 on the street); so it seems like changing to 5w20 beforehand is the most applicable option (and has no real downsides).

I'll reserve 5w-30 for when I actually take the car out on the track.

 

I haven`t tried autocross with my gr86 yet, but I think a single minute of high revs will not impact the oil temperature too much to warrant a different oil. I would not mind using 0W-20 or 5W-20.

 

This is the best for October track days.

 

Any idea if they have a Peppermint flavor for November? HPDE 1 at Summit Point is in 3 weeks.

 

20 weight at 210-220F will be thin. 30 weight is best for temp between 210F and 230F. Anything beyond 230F, I'd recommend 40 weight.

If you don't have an oil cooler using 40 weight and seeing 250F-260F. It is best to cool the car down.

But since you're doing autocross, if you're confident that you won't be seeing 210F and above. You can stay with 20 weight, but personally I won't be using 20 weight unless it's really cold.

 

Been doing autocross for a whole season. Max temp I saw was 235

 

20 weight at 210-220F will be thin. 30 weight is best for temp between 210F and 230F. Anything beyond 230F, I'd recommend 40 weight.

If you don't have an oil cooler using 40 weight and seeing 250F-260F. It is best to cool the car down.

But since you're doing autocross, if you're confident that you won't be seeing 210F and above. You can stay with 20 weight, but personally I won't be using 20 weight unless it's really cold.

Appreciate you chiming in! I don't have an oil cooler and not necessarily confident I will keep temps below 210F. It seems that I have nothing to lose with 5w-30 (right? lol) and can monitor my temps as needed. If anything, I can always switch to 5w-20 next time around if my temps stay low enough.

FWIW, I expect it to be high 60s/low 70s so not that warm but the event does advertise "a season's worth of seat time in one day" so I'm expecting more stress on the car than a "normal" autocross day where people seem to get 3-5 runs.

(I also wish the BRZ had actual values for oil temps like the GR86 offers in track mode to make things easier haha).

 

30 weight will be safer imo. But I can't tell you what to do, I wouldn't be running 20 weight if my ambient temp doesn't get below 30F.

 

30 weight will be safer imo. But I can't tell you what to do, I wouldn't be running 20 weight if my ambient temp doesn't get below 30F.

I rather be safe than sorry

Thanks again for helping me out; I'm very much a noob in this area but looking forward to getting into Autocross / track days in the most informed way possible.

 

I rather be safe than sorry

Thanks again for helping me out; I'm very much a noob in this area but looking forward to getting into Autocross / track days in the most informed way possible.

Smart to ask questions.

Might want to review threads on here about overfilling (some are running up to 1 qt. overfill).

 

Its a double edged sword. Lower visc oil will obviously thin out more at high temp. Moving to something thicker without making any changes to the cooling system will then make oil temps even hotter under the same conditions. So you may have better visc, but you also raise overall engine operating temp which can have its own adverse effects. I have only run my BRZ on the autobahn track here once and while I didnt really push it too hard (stock brakes) I definitely ran it harder for a longer period of time than my hardest street driving. I was surprised to see that my oil temps didn't seem to go any higher than what I see on the street. It got up to 230-240 pretty quickly and just stayed in that range. I will agree that its not the ideal temp for a 20 weight oil, but in most applications it is well within the safety zone. But in all honesty, next time I get track time I will up to 5w30 and monitor temps. If it stays in the 240s, im happy enough with that to not bother with an external cooler.

 

Its a double edged sword. Lower visc oil will obviously thin out more at high temp. Moving to something thicker without making any changes to the cooling system will then make oil temps even hotter under the same conditions. So you may have better visc, but you also raise overall engine operating temp which can have its own adverse effects. I have only run my BRZ on the autobahn track here once and while I didnt really push it too hard (stock brakes) I definitely ran it harder for a longer period of time than my hardest street driving. I was surprised to see that my oil temps didn't seem to go any higher than what I see on the street. It got up to 230-240 pretty quickly and just stayed in that range. I will agree that its not the ideal temp for a 20 weight oil, but in most applications it is well within the safety zone. But in all honesty, next time I get track time I will up to 5w30 and monitor temps. If it stays in the 240s, im happy enough with that to not bother with an external cooler.

Would you mind explaining why "Moving to something thicker without making any changes to the cooling system will then make oil temps even hotter under the same conditions"?

 

Thicker oil will have higher resistance at room temperature than 20 weight.

30 weight sees 100 psi at cold start.

40 weight sees 110 psi at cold start.

Higher resistance can mean that the oil would get up to temperature faster. Though it doesn't mean that it would protect less than 20 weight. As long as the pickup tube is sucking in oil, you're lubricating the engine.

Many have reported that with 40 weight, they see temperature normalizing at 260F (the ceiling of the stock hx). It's not good, but oil temperature will not climb infinitely as long as there's a way to control its temperature. For subaru engine, the sweet spot of oil temp under extreme driving is somewhere between 220-230f with 40 weight.

Stats:

30 weight at 230F sees mid 40 psi to the crank.

40 weight at 230F sees mid 50 psi to the crank.

I have no data for 20 weight.

But my guess would be 30 psi.

 

And you gotta realize this as well.

Our 2, 3 rods share oil supply from one main journal.

Lower oil pressure means that oil can't make it to the crank fast enough. (Note: the total volume of oil that's being moved is unchanged)

So with low oil pressure, you're risking skimming a bearing at the 2, 3 rods. You might not spin a bearing instantly, but accumulated damage can lead to a spun bearing eventually.

I mentioned this before, some users had really good results with the previous Gen FA20D running 0w20. Tho we do need to realize that FA20D makes 50 whp less than FA24D, with more power you'd want to have a stronger oil film cus the forces created by combustion. Inadequate oil pressure might work then, but it seems to be proven that it won't work now.

Above is my theory of why some users are blowing up engines around 19k to 20k miles on street. Assuming they are keeping up with their maintenance; but running dealership filled 20 weight oil.

 

Would you mind explaining why "Moving to something thicker without making any changes to the cooling system will then make oil temps even hotter under the same conditions"?

Its sounds funny because of how we think of oils as a lubricant to lower friction. The reality is that oil is still a fluid that CREATES friction while in motion. More viscosity creates more friction and friction creates heat. It is amplified in the high friction areas of the engine like bearings. So even though the oil itself may have better protective properties and higher visc that will ensure greater film strength it will also make those high friction areas run hotter than they would with a thinner oil. Even with a cooler that cools the oil itself very effectively, those surfaces may still run hotter than they would with a thinner fluid.
This is where the balancing act comes in. Under normal conditions I am confident a 5w20 does the job just as well as anything ticker. Under extreme use I would rather have the extra film strength and pressure and not worry so much about bearing temps.

 

Thanks all for explaining the fundamentals so clearly!

Above is my theory of why some users are blowing up engines around 19k to 20k miles on street. Assuming they are keeping up with their maintenance; but running dealership filled 20 weight oil.

Do you think this applies to solely 0w-20 or even 5w-20 too? If so, would it be correct to interpret that even daily driving would benefit from running a Xw-30 oil? I could see that most owners that don't necessarily track / autocross their cars still drive more aggressively than the average commuter.

I could also understand how it's hard to provide a single, universal answer to my question above about oil weight for DD. Logging oil temperatures for each use case (e.g., daily driving, autocross, track driving) + accounting for ambient temperature is essential to making the "right" decision.

I definitely have a lot more reading to do...

 

Thanks all for explaining the fundamentals so clearly!



Do you think this applies to solely 0w-20 or even 5w-20 too? If so, would it be correct to interpret that even daily driving would benefit from running a Xw-30 oil? I could see that most owners that don't necessarily track / autocross their cars still drive more aggressively than the average commuter.

I could also understand how it's hard to provide a single, universal answer to my question above about oil weight for DD. Logging oil temperatures for each use case (e.g., daily driving, autocross, track driving) + accounting for ambient temperature is essential to making the "right" decision.

I definitely have a lot more reading to do...

I mean 20 weight's viscosity is your ceiling. It will certainly be not as good as a 30 weight at a certain temperature range.

I would to want race on a 20 weight, if I can keep my oil temp at exactly 190F. 20 weight is more free flowing, and I'm loosing less power to the heat that cost by heavier oil.

But at the end of the day, it's not possible to keep oil temp at 190F with WOT.

 

I wouldn't say 20 weight is absolutely the Achille's Heel of the engine.

You just need to know its working windows.

If street driving, you're only seeing 190F cruising. There's nothing wrong to do a pull or two. It's a different story when you bring that oil temp to 230F and do a pull or two.

Cus then your oil pressure will be really low.

According to @TRU-BOOST , 5w20 will hold its viscosity better than 0w20 with heat cycles.

Oil can lose its viscosity after you keep beating on them, hence the reason why we need to change oil.

 

Seems like the TLDR is that using 5w-20 on the street is definitely more safe than 0w-20 (especially in my case where I'm being the BRZ oil temp gauge reaching ~200-210F even when cruising). And using 5w-30 is a better starting point than 5w-20 for autocross (and track driving). I'll definitely keep an eye on my temps to see if it goes beyond 230/240.

BTW do you all solely rely on the OEM oil temp gauge in the BRZ or have some sort of aftermarket gauge that provides distinct values? I thought I read somewhere that the built in oil temp gauge may read a bit higher than the "true" oil temp values.

 

I have a whole thread dedicated to collecting data on track.

Short version, I have the GJP setup.

I have their ISP gauge displaying live data about the oil temp, water temp, intake temp, air to fuel ratio, and oil pressure. So all the vital information is a few clicks away. I dedicate my driving behavior based on these data.

 

Appreciate you chiming in! I don't have an oil cooler and not necessarily confident I will keep temps below 210F. It seems that I have nothing to lose with 5w-30 (right? lol) and can monitor my temps as needed. If anything, I can always switch to 5w-20 next time around if my temps stay low enough.

FWIW, I expect it to be high 60s/low 70s so not that warm but the event does advertise "a season's worth of seat time in one day" so I'm expecting more stress on the car than a "normal" autocross day where people seem to get 3-5 runs.

(I also wish the BRZ had actual values for oil temps like the GR86 offers in track mode to make things easier haha).

Even if you do way more runs, the chances are they are not going to be back to back, giving ample time for the engine to cool down. I am not sure how high oil temperature can rise in 1 minute long high RPM at 2nd gear.

I actually bought 3 boxes of Magnatec, one each: 0w-20, 5w-20 and 5w-30
My plan is to use the 0w-20 after the break in, and take 1 or 2 auto cross with that and go through the winter. Then move to 5w-20 for spring & summer and more autocross. Finally 5w-30 when its time for some track time. I can see how 5w-30 or 5w-40 might be beneficial on the track, but I don`t think they have too much to offer on an autocross. One thing I wonder is if running the engine with an oil that is not recommended in the manual could cause issues with the warranty. 5w-20 is mentioned to be okay in my car`s manual, so because of that unless I have a strong reason to expect a benefit, I would not want to deviate from that too much.

 

One thing I wonder is if running the engine with an oil that is not recommended in the manual could cause issues with the warranty. 5w-20 is mentioned to be okay in my car`s manual, so because of that unless I have a strong reason to expect a benefit, I would not want to deviate from that too much.

Toyota stealerships would want to deny your warranty anyways if you blow it up on track.

If you have a full sump of oil, they would come up with the excuse that you have reved the engine to redline.

And God forbids, if your oil level is a bit low. They would instantly deny your warranty.

The way I see it is that you're on your own when tracking this thing. Do the basic maintenance on the car when you go on track. (Heavy weight oil, racing brake fluid and racing pads.).

Plus there's no way of telling from Toyota that you have tracked the car with 40 weight, if you swap it out with 20 weight after.

 

I don’t track the car but I drive it hard on occasion on backroads.

I drained the original 0W-20 from the car at 1500 miles in the fall and replaced it with 5W-20 for winter use. In the spring, I drained the 5W-20 and replaced it with 5W-30 for summer use. I live in an area where winter can get to -20 °F / -7 °C and summer can reach 100+ °F / 38+ °C. I’ll soon be going back to 5W-20 for winter.

I‘m running about 0.5L overfill.

 

I have a whole thread dedicated to collecting data on track.

Short version, I have the GJP setup.

I have their ISP gauge displaying live data about the oil temp, water temp, intake temp, air to fuel ratio, and oil pressure. So all the vital information is a few clicks away. I dedicate my driving behavior based on these data.

Oh yeah I found your thread. Really appreciate that strides you're taking to inform us all; I'll definitely be following closely

 

Talking woth Royal Purple about our engines.

Its about the type of oil and not so much the grade.

I would recommend Driven DI20 for autocross. That oil does not break down.

Or

Royal Purple HPS or XPR

That's what I have experience with. HPS never let me down during open lapping

 

Talking woth Royal Purple about our engines.

Its about the type of oil and not so much the grade.

I would recommend Driven DI20 for autocross. That oil does not break down.

Or

Royal Purple HPS or XPR

That's what I have experience with. HPS never let me down during open lapping

Stop trolling

 

Oil is tricky, you should be looking at actual viscosities and HTHS number if you are seeing high temperatures. As weight only represents that viscosity at either 40 or 100 is in particular range.

Given you are not seeing high temperatures, 210 I assume, I would just run 0w20 with HTHS. This has a good compilation of lots of oil



Track is completely different and I wouldn't run anything other than Mobil1 FS 0w40.

 

I think 10w40 is the right choice if you drive on tracks. I asked Toyota Germany for their ok. also the old engine of the gt86 was ok with this specs….still waiting for Toyotas answer.

 

Some Taiwanese tunner ran 10w60 for their race series car 😂.

40 weight is my cut off point.

 

I love how I get flamed for oil while ive done more research, owner more new engines and drive more klm than anyone else here.

Ive built race cars, raced cars, owned a speed shop and delt with people in the industry.

But take advice from little timmy. Im sure formula drift taught them a lot.

 

I love how I get flamed for oil while ive done more research, owner more new engines and drive more klm than anyone else here.

Ive built race cars, raced cars, owned a speed shop and delt with people in the industry.

But take advice from little timmy. Im sure formula drift taught them a lot.

Simply anecdotal experience. I'm giving out anecdotal experience as well.

Difference is I had data to back up my opinion. Your data was "I've called a company", "ive built engines".

 

Aight, no point of arguing with you. I have seen you many times with this kind of information.

Time to hit that ignore button to ease my mind. Peace hommie. Hope your engine doesn't blow up with that 0w16 weight.

 

Im.not saying dont use high viscosity. Im saying thats its more omportamt to have a racing oil than a api oil.

You can use your french crusaders Motul they make racing oil to.

 

There's no standard for "racing oil". You can take mineral oil and put "racing" on the bottle and it's "racing oil".

Drag cars use thin oils for less viscous friction. Those types of racers also drown their engine in dry ice/liquid nitrogen in order to gain a few horses. They're rebuilding their engines every few events. Has nothing to do with them using a "racing oil".

Testing, builder approvals, licenses, and certifications provide concrete evidence of performance. An API rated oil is not necessarily a bad oil for road racing applications. Once you go 40 grade or above, a lot of the rules and regulations for an API rating gets lifted, allowing for a more concentrated additive package. An unrated oil from a random company that claims it's a "racing oil" requires even more scrutiny than an API rated oil, not less. You don't know if the unrated oil even meets the maximum acceptable wear for API rating, and the API wear test is fairly easy to pass. Everything is a big question mark once you start using unrated oils and the oil manufacturers are basically saying "Just trust me, bro. It's way better than API rated oil." Can they be better oils for wear in the long run? Sure. Prove it through testing. Show us some real numbers. Run it through minimum API tests or BMW/MB/Porsche approval tests and be public about which tests it fails and why. Maybe then people should believe in the hype.

 

API is government regulations, has nothing to do with engine protection. Trust the government... get the jab w aside of french fries


RP, Motul, VP Racing, Valvoline all small fly by nite brands make a worser oil and brand it as racing because no one will know right.

Ya calling and having discussions with manufactures is such astupid idea. Id rather get my info from college students on gr86.org

Zink who needs that, put another diaper in the intake so gasses dont escape but the car will use more fuel. Brilliant thanks government 👍

 

Me watching the evolution of this thread since I started it:

 

Starting to rival Ritter's EV threads