232hp is without the intake diaper that only the North American cars seem to come with.

Beyond that, this has been discussed plenty here before already…Some people think it is underrated, and some do not. My personal opinion is that it is slightly underrated. Probably making about 240hp-245hp crank, and I’m almost certainly gonna stick in that camp. Others will continue to stay in the camp of thinking it’s not underrated at all. There isn’t a 100% definitive way to know the real answer it seems.

 

I think I heard that due to variations they list HP at the bottom of the range to shield themselves from overrating. But who knows.

 

In the last week I took 2 people for play rides in the car who couldn't belive that it's only 230hp. I told them that it's much lighter than cars they're used to, the tires aren't very grippy (I've got shitty all seasons on now) so the back end breaking loose in 3rd gear doesn't take massive power, and the internet says the driveline is very efficient and doesn't lose as much power as most cars. Still, they both suspected the engine is under rated.

 

In 3rd gear...? That's a dangerously bad tire.

 

It dynos at nearly identical power to the wheels as an ap2 s2000, which was rated 237 hp in the latest SAE revision. It also runs nearly identical 1/4 mile times and trap speeds at the same weight. Take that for whatever it's worth.

 

I would say "enough". I was thinking about this the other day and kind of laughed to myself that I hardly think of it anymore. People ask how much HP the car has and I say "idk I think 240? but its light"

 

Do people harp on Miatas like this? S2000s? "It has how much? You're gonna turbo it right?" I dunno. Seems weird lol

Is it because our cars look like they should be faster? 🤣

 

No, it’s because I’ve had 29 cars and it feels underrated. I’ve driven the mother of all underrated cars, the GNX, and the GR86 feels about 10% under to me.

 

Do people harp on Miatas like this? S2000s? "It has how much? You're gonna turbo it right?" I dunno. Seems weird lol

Is it because our cars look like they should be faster? 🤣

At least in my area, its very common for people to boost their miatas. But yeah most people assume our car pushes more power due to its looks. A coworker with a Stinger GT2 was shocked that my car has less hp. I told him I'd need a turbo to do that 🤣

Power to weight is a huge deal though. My car at around 230-240whp will probably feel faster than any modern (stock) car at that power level due to weight

 

Weight and gearing go a long way. Nobody ever said fox body mustangs were underrated, and they weren't. 225HP at the flywheel all day long. I have done between a 13.8-14.2 1\4 mile with trap speed of 95-99 in at about a half dozen of them bone stock.

 

I don't believe they're HP under rated. How many cars are we comparing with of similar weight? Seat of the pants dyno is hugely affected by HP/weight. Hop into a Lotus Elise and you'll think its HP under rated also because it's so light.

 

I don't believe they're HP under rated. How many cars are we comparing with of similar weight? Seat of the pants dyno is hugely affected by HP/weight. .

Well, let’s make it easy. How about the 1st gen? Which I also happen to have, parked right beside each other.

 

yall must be bored, beating this dead horse again.

the tq curve & gearing help this car tremendously with regard to perceived power output.

if you want a better idea of how not powerful this car is, run the car up to 5k in 4th gear, pause for a few seconds and then floor it up to 7k rpm.

once you remove all of the cars advantages: tq curve, weight, (some of the) gearing, it becomes painfully obvious.

if you want more of it, grab a passenger or try these shenanigans in not cold weather.

i thought id cut my car loose in 5th gear one night i was making pulls. about 7-8 seconds into 5th gear i simply felt sorry for it so i stopped. the car is completely out of nutsack at 80 mph. its kinda funny bc my dads platinum escalade has no problem driving around the car, despite it being a 6000 lb brick.

 

The thread isn’t about how powerful it is. Nor is it about comparing to V8 SUVs. It’s about the quoted numbers versus real numbers. Same discussion can be had about a Briggs & Stratton lawnmower engine.

I think you’re the bored one here.

 

Until somebody pulls an engine out and has it strapped to an SAE certified engine dyno we wont ever know. All we can do is take the numbers of WHP dynos that were done by proper test standards and apply what the most probable drivetrain loss is. I have done exactly that, but people get upset because it doesnt align with their feelings that the twins are super underrated and make way more HP than they advertise. I cant speak to every WHP dyno we have seen, but I am confident the vast majority of them are way off.
And for those who prefer to use acceleration times and trap speeds, which lets be honest can vary wildly with similar powered vehicles due to weight, gearing, etc. I also provided info from one of the most well documented vehicles ever with both engine\chassis dynos, the 225HP 5.0 foxbody mustang. Weight on LX coupes was under 3000lbs. Engine dynos showed 225 on the money consistently, 1\4 mile times were high 13 - low 14 and trap speeds in the high 90s. Pretty spot on to what we see. Those cars also had more drivetrain loss than we have, but the added torque made up the difference.
So unless someone would like to share engine dyno results I feel what we have here is a battle of "what if", "I think" "Somebody told me" type stuff. Despite any amount of evidence people will believe what they want.

 

I cant speak to every WHP dyno we have seen, but I am confident the vast majority of them are way off.

I've worked with SAE, ANSI, IEEE, IEC and other standards and I agree, especially, especially concerning the portable dyno's I've seen at car events. The fact that most are probably not recertified and the number of variables introduced to a mobile dyno would (to me) render it useless.

 

Honestly, the real utility of a dyno that measures at the wheels is as a tuning tool so you can measure changes in output in a reasonably repeatable way. Trying to extrapolate to crank hp or compare to a different car on a different dyno is tough. If someone wants to pull their engine and stick it on a calibrated engine dyno, I’d be curious, but it wouldn’t change my driving or ownership experience at all.