I was wondering what everyone's thoughts were, too, and I couldn't find anyone actually talking about their experiences with the tune except for this this video.

I'm kinda disappointed how little information I've seen about what the tuned car feels like because it's been out for almost a month already.

 

I agree with the lack of information on how it at least feels to drive on. I would have thought for sure all the YouTubers would have done this to their cars by now.

 

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I think his point was there wasn't much in discussion when it came to what it was actually like driving the vehicle after getting a tune, It's cool to see numbers all day but if the gains aren't all that tangible (which don't get me wrong, you probably do feel it) then it seems to not be worth it.
My guess is too many people are taking the back seat here and waiting for others to test things out. Understandably so, there's a lot of things up in the air atm. I want to tune so bad, but I don't exactly have a grand sitting around to throw at the car just to get a little bit more out of the car. Personally, unless compelled otherwise, I think I'm just gonna wait to see more examples of the car under boost and see where that limit is, which kits are the good ones, such and such. She's my daily so I can't exactly afford a ton of downtime with it

 

You are focused too much on the peak power numbers. Sure a tune on 91 was "only" good for about 12HP\8TQ at 7k. But there is more power everywhere from 2500 to 7k. The youtube channel "stratified auto" adds a great bit of info to their dyno comparisons. They include the total time of the dyno run. So they measure the amount of time it takes the car to go from 2k-7.5k rpm in 4th gear. I think that gives a better estimation of improvement than just saying .... 12HP. Their car with exhaust and tune now completes a 4th gear pull 1.5 seconds faster. That is significant..!!
I admit that I expected more gains from tuning as well. The truth is Toyobaru just did a really good job this time and did not leave us much on the table. But if we can gain 10% power with a couple bolt ons and tune, I dont see how anyone can say that it's not worth it. This is an NA car. We cant just call COBB and have them add 5PSI of extra boost like a WRX and make gobs of power.

 

The area beneath the curve is what matters and there is gobs of additional midrange (3K to 6K) torque...as in 20+ lb-ft. That is significant and will surely make the car move. I've also noticed that the folks who have tuned the cars...the dyno charts do not change shape much at the top end (say over 6800 RPM). This tells me that there is another restriction on the top end. On other cars I've modded/tuned certain mods really opened up the top end. As an example, I had a single cam Civic (1991), i swapped the intake manifold for a TypeR replica and larger throttle body. I didn't lose power anywhere, peak power was up about 3whp, but power at redline was up by nearly 20whp as it maintained peak power up to redline. The OE manifold and throttle body flowed like garbage. I don't know enough about this platform to comment what it might be, but KevinVo had a complete exhaust and the power drop up top remained the same. Its not ignition timing...perhaps cam timing, or the cam lift itself? It may also be intake, throttle body, intake manifold, etc. It'd be interesting to see folks toy with these different items now that tuning is available.

 

The 1.5 second time gain is a little deceptive when it comes to how you drive the car on the road. It would be unlikely you would decide to do a WOT pull in 4th from 2500rpm on the road, you would always look to drop back a gear or 2 first. Then if you look at the top speed in 4th, its near 180kph, well beyond the speed limit in most places. So I still think we need a true back to back 0-100kph/0-62 test and 80-120kph/45-70 rolling run to see further if the gains are consistent.

 

The quicker acceleration time in a single gear is more representative of the progress made. Trying to use 0-60 as a benchmark has way too many variables. How good or worthless is the driver? Were launches consistent? Was there more\less wheel spin? You will never get apples to apples when you have driver error in the equation.
I agree that you would not likely do a pull like that on the street or track, but at least you remove variables from the test.

 

The rolling acceleration test is a good way of taking the launch and wheel spin factor out at least.

 

Just to add to some of the comments about top end power, it would imo have to be one of two things with one being very much more likely.

1) the engine isn’t cammed to make hella power up top. This is probably how they tamed the torque dip from the first Gen. We have a pretty flat torque curve from 3-7k - which in a NA engine would support more of a “street cam” sort of setup.

2) there is significant intake restriction. I find this unlikely because the stock airbox appears fairly free flowing. The carbon filter notwithstanding, aftermarket units have not made an appreciable difference thus far.

 

The formula to make power is pretty simple. You need to take in as much air as possible, provide the proper amount of fuel and be able to evacuate the exhaust efficiently. With a free flowing intake and exhaust setup there isnt much else "basic" that can be done to get more volume into the engine. There is of course old school methods of porting\polishing, bigger cams, etc, but I dont foresee many people going to that extreme. The only other option is to FORCE more into the engine. I am going to let others pioneer that aspect. I dont have enough confidence in these engines to be the one to test the waters.

 

I agree. I could honestly see myself being pleasantly surprised by “safe” boost levels just as easily as I could see it being a no-go on my own car.

 

I'd love for 5-10psi on a supercharger to be safe and make 300whp or so since I'm in a position to actually afford that in the near future.
Not holding my breath though.

 

Jesus Christ somebody hurry up and grenade up their engine!

…What? We’re all thinking it.

 

Or better yet, cram 10 pounds of boost into it and demonstrate that it’s just fine!

 

I plan on supercharging, specifically waiting on Jackson Racing. Need to save a bit but hopefully sometime in 2024, or late 2023 at the earliest.

 

Forced induction on an engine that ready has a 12 to 1 compression ratio sure seems like a really bad idea. Unless of course you are entertained by unscheduled rapid disassembly of your engine.

 

I was finally able to install the tune on my car yesterday. I took it out for a few hours to see how it felt after relearning. The biggest improvement is throttle mapping. The stock calibration is a bit bizarre, especially driving the car with a linear curve now. The torque dip is almost complete gone as well, and with the bit of extra power, the car feels much quicker even if it isn't. Power builds linearly and it doesn't stumble anywhere anymore, giving a strong consistent pull feeling. A side benefit is that it is also much easier to drive at low speeds. Exhaust sound is much better as well. The tune gave it an edge that really rounds out the experience.

The engine is starting to feel & sound like a purpose built performance motor now, rather than a modified econobox powerplant which had some considerable shortcomings. That said, the power change isn't night and day. In general, the torque is less noticeable than the recalibration and power which might be disappointing for some given the cost. Regardless, I still think it is worth it.

Car Details: '22 GR86 manual, Delicious Tuned via EcuTek ProECU, Charcoal filter delete, GR Airfilter (KN), Corsa catback, and a winter wheel setup that weighs 25 lbs total less than stock. Plus a few non-power-train mods; camber bolts, clutch spring, door stabilizers. I'm just under a mile above sea level running 91 octane.

 

I was finally able to install the tune on my car yesterday. I took it out for a few hours to see how it felt after relearning. The biggest improvement is throttle mapping. The stock calibration is a bit bizarre, especially driving the car with a linear curve now. The torque dip is almost complete gone as well, and with the bit of extra power, the car feels much quicker even if it isn't. Power builds linearly and it doesn't stumble anywhere anymore, giving a strong consistent pull feeling. A side benefit is that it is also much easier to drive at low speeds. Exhaust sound is much better as well. The tune gave it an edge that really rounds out the experience.

The engine is starting to feel & sound like a purpose built performance motor now, rather than a modified econobox powerplant which had some considerable shortcomings. That said, the power change isn't night and day. In general, the torque is less noticeable than the recalibration and power which might be disappointing for some given the cost. Regardless, I still think it is worth it.

Car Details: '22 GR86 manual, Delicious Tuned via EcuTek ProECU, Charcoal filter delete, GR Airfilter (KN), Corsa catback, and a winter wheel setup that weighs 25 lbs total less than stock. Plus a few non-power-train mods; camber bolts, clutch spring, door stabilizers. I'm just under a mile above sea level running 91 octane.

I'm also interested to see in a couple weeks how your fuel economy is. If it's not a major change maybe I'll see what I can do once the snow goes away

 

Can you post up the dyno results?

 

My fuel economy was slightly better with my gen 1 but those were a bit rich.

I'm sure the cost of the tune /parts will be the primary expense with NA

 

Spent a lot of time in the car this weekend getting the ignition timing advance multiplier to 1. I did a handful of pulls this morning and ran them through vDyno. I did 5 3rd gear pulls in total, throwing out the high and low outliers (242 and 202 corrected whp respectively). I've worked with vDynos a lot in the past on other platforms and when done correctly, they're very useful for directional use and can be quite accurate. That said, I haven't spent much time on the roads here. They appear to be pretty flat but I'd want to measure them before putting much stock into these results.

Regardless, the three remaining vDynos linked below were taken during the same drive but on three different roads with a few minutes in between each one. I'm guessing the peak torque spike on the blue line was a dip in the road. I also want to mention it was very cool (30F) this morning but also quite humid (70%), and for reference, the corrected vDyno was showing 208 whp yesterday before the ignition timing advance multiplier settled.

Adjusted for Elevation (225 whp, 163 lb-ft wtq) (I used the SAE option to adjust barometric pressure rather than using a custom correction factor. However, regardless of method, this technically exceeds the SAE's thresholds for corrections but everyone up here loves to do it anyway so what the hell)
Uncorrected (201 whp, 163 lb-ft wtq)

Edit: I reset my trip just after tuning, and again this morning. I put roughly 300 miles on the car this weekend just blasting around. The deltas after the first reset and after my most recent drive are within the noise. Feels safe to say there won't be a significant hit to fuel economy.

 

Spent a lot of time in the car this weekend getting the ignition timing advance multiplier to 1. I did a handful of pulls this morning and ran them through vDyno. I did 5 3rd gear pulls in total, throwing out the high and low outlier. I've worked with vDynos a lot in the past on other platforms and when done correctly, they're very useful for directional use and can be quite accurate. That said, I haven't spent much time on the roads here. They appear to be pretty flat but I'd want to measure them before putting much stock into these results.

Regardless, the three remaining vDynos linked below were taken during the same drive but on three different roads with a few minutes in between each one. I'm guessing the peak torque spike on the blue line was a dip in the road. I also want to mention it was very cool (30F) this morning but also quite humid (70%), and for reference, the corrected vDyno was showing 208 whp yesterday before the ignition timing advance multiplier settled.

Adjusted for Elevation (I used the SAE option to adjust barometric pressure rather than using a custom correctio factor. Regardless of adjustment method, this technically exceeds the SAE's thresholds for corrections but everyone up here loves to do it anyway so what the hell)
Uncorrected for Elevation

Edit: I reset my trip just after tuning, and again this morning. I put roughly 300 miles on the car this weekend just blasting around. The deltas after the first reset and after my most recent drive are within the noise. Feels safe to say there won't be a significant hit to fuel economy.

I have absolutely no experience with dynos but what was the reasoning behind doing 3rd gear pulls? From reading other posts, I thought that the best gear to use was the gear with a 1:1 ratio, which is think is 5th for MT.

 

Probably space, and ticket size if noticed

 

Stock - 149.07 KW (199.9whp)
Tuned - 176.44 KW (236.6whp)

Stock - 237.60 Nm (175.24 ft-lbs)
Tuned 277.43 Nm (204.43 ft-lbs)

I'm just the messenger. Don't come to me with questions about the results. The header is a prototype for the 2nd gens from SME.

 

That same SME el header is used in the motive BRZ, without a tune, the headers made a decent gain on their own and no codes were thrown either.

 

Quite a bit better gains than what any of the American tuners have been able to pull off. I would blame it on fuel quality, but once we are talking about E85 that goes out the window.

 

Australian 98oct petrol is about the same as the American 93oct, or slightly worse. The headers I think are a larger diameter than the aftermarket stuff made for Gen 1 cars.

 

There was a decent difference btw let's say ace headers and borla headers with the first gen.

35hp would be noticeable for sure

 

Its possible it is the header design or just more aggressive tuning. The OTL header that Kevin Vo tested was supposed to be "the best header design possible" and that made almost 10HP less. Obviously there are variables from car to car and dyno to dyno. What makes it more significant to me is that the Australian car actually started off with a lower baseline dyno and ended up with a higher header\tune dyno result.

 

Are we able to get that Australian header and tune here in the states?

236 whp and 204 tq would be the perfect fun daily driving set up for me.

 

Hard to exactly see if there is a diameter difference from the exhaust port side. But there is a difference in exit size compared to the standard header it looks that connects to the over pipe.

 

There is also an O2 extender rigged up on there. That explains why it didnt throw any codes with a catless setup.