the thing is he wasn't really beating on it very hard at all...he wasn't bouncing off the rev limiter and just letting the revs hang up there near the top like we have all seen some do with their cars. He was being pretty easy on it.
Toyota Denies Warranty for track day blown engine.... again
Hoping the guy was tuned or something which caused the denial
EDIT: NOT ME IN THE VIDEO, JUST POSTING LINK TO THE VIDEO
EDIT: NOT ME IN THE VIDEO, JUST POSTING LINK TO THE VIDEO
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I wonder how
I wonder how this sort of thing is being handled by Subaru? Is subaru warranting their cars under similar conditions or are they playing the safe card and saying street use only if you want warranty service?It’s fun to speculate but probably best not to jump to conclusions until root cause of failure is determined and everything plays out with Toyota. After the last warranty denial fiasco, this was the statement Toyota (corporate, not the dealership) issued:
View attachment 26870
Not sure how Toyota would deny warranty coverage based simply on track use after issuing that statement. I’m guessing either the cause of failure is different then people are expecting or Toyota will reverse position and end up replacing the engine.
My particular dealership stated that they will honor the warranty even the car has seen track time.I wonder how
I wonder how this sort of thing is being handled by Subaru? Is subaru warranting their cars under similar conditions or are they playing the safe card and saying street use only if you want warranty service?
There's a thread here, where a BRZ money shifted his engine on track. And he got away with it.
There are also instance where someone blew up a modified EJ25, and subaru was willing to pay out half the engine to keep the customer within their brand.
It’s been dealer-dependent (as it always is), but from what I can tell Subaru has always eventually covered the repair thus far.I wonder how
I wonder how this sort of thing is being handled by Subaru? Is subaru warranting their cars under similar conditions or are they playing the safe card and saying street use only if you want warranty service?
I have to wonder how much memory there is in that ecu and how much data can be stored....I am certain it wont store an unlimited amount.The deciding factor is likely something found when the ECU was logged. Anything and everything stupid that was ever done in the car is recorded and brought to light. You can have a bone stock car that has never seen the track ever and have a warranty claim denied if they see something they dont like. You can also have a modified car that has seen plenty of track time have the same claim honored. The truth lies in the details we dont have.
It only stores and keeps data on events that are "important", so it is "unlimited" in the sense that you really can't drive your car much after too many of those "important" events are stored because the car is probably incapacitated by then. For example, Lexus ECUs in the IS300 will store mechanical over-rev data. If you rev past redline, the ECU will store the code indefinitely and if the engine blows shortly afterwards, warranty declined. Same with last gen Civics with the 1.5T. Over-rev is an immediate warranty denial. Tons of holes in the blocks of those 1.5T engines from a single over-rev that can be confirmed with their scanners. There are some overheating events that will set off ECUs to store data too if the temperature goes above 300F at the sensors on almost every Lexus I worked on that overheated.I have to wonder how much memory there is in that ecu and how much data can be stored....I am certain it wont store an unlimited amount.
It’s easy for a driver to destroy the engine. Just have some bad downshifts and over-rev the engine a few thousand rpm and then it’s just a matter of when it will fail.
In addition to what @TessaSeveride said, a simple
IIRC, there was a menu available through the touchscreen on the STI to download data. Maybe something similar on these...
echo "$(date +%Y%b%m-%H:%M:%S) - RPM threshold event: ${RPM}" >> /log.txt or whatever file append code they use isn't going to take up much space on disk.IIRC, there was a menu available through the touchscreen on the STI to download data. Maybe something similar on these...
Even if there was a very limited amount of memory on the system, it isn’t too hard for a Toyota/Subaru engineer to program something in that logs the most extreme data points.
Over-rev to 8000 at 200 miles? Logged.
Oh shit you went to 9000 from money shifting? 8000 overwritten and 9000 logged.
This logic to embed driver errors in the system can’t be difficult at all, thus Toyota’s willingness to flat out deny warranty.
I’m having a hard time believing Toyota is looking at data logs that have ZERO issues or red flags and going “Looks like you did everything by the book anddd… yeah. It is what it is. Warranty denied”
Over-rev to 8000 at 200 miles? Logged.
Oh shit you went to 9000 from money shifting? 8000 overwritten and 9000 logged.
This logic to embed driver errors in the system can’t be difficult at all, thus Toyota’s willingness to flat out deny warranty.
I’m having a hard time believing Toyota is looking at data logs that have ZERO issues or red flags and going “Looks like you did everything by the book anddd… yeah. It is what it is. Warranty denied”
Seems like many of these cases are dickhead dealers who don’t want to be stuck with low margin warranty work. In that first famous case with the RTV the warranty inspector from Gulf Coast Toyota (a regional distributor) didn’t even bother going to look at the car.Even if there was a very limited amount of memory on the system, it isn’t too hard for a Toyota/Subaru engineer to program something in that logs the most extreme data points.
Over-rev to 8000 at 200 miles? Logged.
Oh shit you went to 9000 from money shifting? 8000 overwritten and 9000 logged.
This logic to embed driver errors in the system can’t be difficult at all, thus Toyota’s willingness to flat out deny warranty.
I’m having a hard time believing Toyota is looking at data logs that have ZERO issues or red flags and going “Looks like you did everything by the book anddd… yeah. It is what it is. Warranty denied”
windows key + shift + s brings up the snipping toolConsidering Toyota themselves define racing in their very own service procedures as revving the engine to 3000RPM while stationary, i’d say the definition of racing is pretty ambiguous here.
I was unaware that the ecu recorded such important events in long term memory. I guess they have a register for every kind of bad thing that can be done, low oil pressure, over rev, overheat, etc with a counter to record the number of times said event occurs and a register for recording the numbers of the event itself. Its a wonder they dont track what percentage of time the car is at full throttle too and make their warranty decisions partly based on that. I will need to be vewwy vewwy careful as old elmer fudd would say.It only stores and keeps data on events that are "important", so it is "unlimited" in the sense that you really can't drive your car much after too many of those "important" events are stored because the car is probably incapacitated by then. For example, Lexus ECUs in the IS300 will store mechanical over-rev data. If you rev past redline, the ECU will store the code indefinitely and if the engine blows shortly afterwards, warranty declined. Same with last gen Civics with the 1.5T. Over-rev is an immediate warranty denial. Tons of holes in the blocks of those 1.5T engines from a single over-rev that can be confirmed with their scanners. There are some overheating events that will set off ECUs to store data too if the temperature goes above 300F at the sensors on almost every Lexus I worked on that overheated.
New marketing pitch…here’s an engine that revs past 7k, just make sure not to…it’s also capable of g forces on turns, just make sure you don’t do it.
Sounds fun as hell.
Sounds fun as hell.
The driver posted the video to Reddit. There’s been some comments pointing out an old comment from him stating along the lines of “I’ve had a new GR86 for a week and have nearly spun it everyday. Send that ish”
https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/comments/sjsemn/_/hvgus03 I think there’s a possibility that he didn’t abide by the break in period rules, and who knows how he’s been driving for a year until it blew.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have a case here but if he hasn’t been taking care of his car then I’d assume Toyota could point that out and deny the warranty.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/comments/sjsemn/_/hvgus03 I think there’s a possibility that he didn’t abide by the break in period rules, and who knows how he’s been driving for a year until it blew.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have a case here but if he hasn’t been taking care of his car then I’d assume Toyota could point that out and deny the warranty.
Cars have been "spying" on us for quite sometime. First it was ECM doing a "black box" function recording car data. Sometime called an Event Data Recorder (EDR). These have been in some cars from the mid 90's.I was unaware that the ecu recorded such important events in long term memory. I guess they have a register for every kind of bad thing that can be done, low oil pressure, over rev, overheat, etc with a counter to record the number of times said event occurs and a register for recording the numbers of the event itself. Its a wonder they dont track what percentage of time the car is at full throttle too and make their warranty decisions partly based on that. I will need to be vewwy vewwy careful as old elmer fudd would say.
Now they have become a lot more capable than just recording the last few minutes of driving. For more general info: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder
Obviously these systems are being used for warranty purposes as well now. Gives you that warm and fuzzy feeling doesn't it? 😬
Man, these kind of people almost make it too easy for Toyota huh?The driver posted the video to Reddit. There’s been some comments pointing out an old comment from him stating along the lines of “I’ve had a new GR86 for a week and have nearly spun it everyday. Send that ish”
https://www.reddit.com/r/ft86/comments/sjsemn/_/hvgus03 I think there’s a possibility that he didn’t abide by the break in period rules, and who knows how he’s been driving for a year until it blew.
I’m not saying he doesn’t have a case here but if he hasn’t been taking care of his car then I’d assume Toyota could point that out and deny the warranty.
He had it new for a week and "nearly spun it everyday" which means pretty much since day 1.
This guy really likes to leave a trail online (text, video, etc.) about how he doesn't follow the rules/recommendations of the manufacturer like a total badass, doesn't know to stop the car when the engine is yelling at him to, and then cries about not getting a warranty claim approved.
I'm sure there are examples of Toyota denying warranties for cases that should be approved, but I don't think this is one of them.
I’m not gonna log onto my favorite GR86 shitposting forum from my work computer, sorry.windows key + shift + s brings up the snipping tool
Volume up + lock button brings up the screenshot tool on your phone 😉I’m not gonna log onto my favorite GR86 shitposting forum from my work computer, sorry.
How is screenshotting my phone going to help me get a service procedure off my work computer lmao.Volume up + lock button brings up the screenshot tool on your phone 😉
Could screenshot it and email to yourself to post off your phone. Its 2023 and we don't need to be looking at terrible quality pictures of screens when everything has a screenshot function. Be the change you want to see in the worldI’m not gonna log onto my favorite GR86 shitposting forum from my work computer, sorry.
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