[Vtor]

Yep that is my biggest issue with the 1LE SS, it's 900+ lbs heavier than the BRZ. Other dislikes for me are the outward visibility and the interior design.

Visibility is not an issue. Adjust mirrors just like you have to do in the 86 ( at least in the camaro they auto tilt down in reverse! - i miss that feature ), run seat at proper height, the car shrinks around you. Visibility is like RTV causing engines failures.. one person bitched about it and every idiot there after repeats it. Go from 911 or boxster to Camaro, yeah you'll notice the long hood, but 86 to Camaro - which I can do on daily, not much difference.

The 86 throttle mapping is pure garbage in comparison though.. and other has 650hp which it puts down butter smooth. No nasty wheels hop or unpredictable rear end movements.

Those 900lbs.. some of them were used for transmission that shits properly under ALL conditions, some were use for sound deadening and some for biggg ass engine that everyone LOVES to swap into stuff... esp 86 twins and interior that doesn't smash into your knee while trying to step into it. Welcome aboard, let me introduce you to sharp end of the dash.

Side by side, there are differences, but less weight of my 86 does not makes up for all the things it lacks in comparison and other is now a 5 yr old car. Let's not forget mark up issue that many saw in last 2 years.. $30K 86 ... asking in $45K+ range. GR Corolla still suffering from that crap.

Best part of it all... i'm glad there are still options!

 

[Dctech1000]

I wish they had called this article grin machines because the word sports car is misused as others have said.

They have mixed up sports cars (twins, Miata ) with muscle cars(bmw is almost here) with hot hatches. They have also mixed up track machines with street fun. And to say nothing about that the BMW is automatic only, and steering lacks feel.

With that said, it’s a good short list for car enthusiasts to pick from depending on their circumstances and preferences..

 

[mcsquash]

Yes, they fail to differentiate between Muscle, Pony and Sports car (they have all three in the list). They put the BRZ over the GR86 because of tail happiness of the GR86. I've not driven both, by my GR86 is quite tail happy.

Tail happy is part of the fun. They also have Hot Hatches in the list. How did cars with "MT: Not yet Rated" make the list.

Stupid list is stupid clickbate.

I don't like Hurst Magazines anyway. Signed up for free trial subscription and got spam from all magazines, publications, and had to unsign from every one.

 

[CanyonDriver]

A very "general public" kind of ranking.

 

[damon]

I don't like Hurst Magazines anyway. Signed up for free trial subscription and got spam from all magazines, publications, and had to unsign from every one.

And don't even get me started on how Hearst inflamed public sentiment during the Mexican Revolution, leading to the Spanish-American War!

 

[Perzeus]

Only sports cars i see on that list are the miata, twins and maybe the 2 series (i dont have enough xp to judge the bimmer)

BMW does not make sports cars... never has with the exception of maybe the M1.

 

[BlitzPig]

BMW's Z series 2 seaters are sports cars, plus the 507 series from the late 50s. Otherwise they are builders of sports sedans.

 

[Induced Oversteer]

Echoing others when I say that the majority of these cars aren’t even sports cars. It’s a shit list quite frankly. For those who value raw power and stats over driver involvement and a design/engineering intent to make a car dance - you do you and buy a fat, huge sled that can make a lot of noise and do burn outs. For me, I believe weight is the enemy of fun. As for the top ranked car, I owned a 2022 civic si for just under a year (sold it in favor of my gr86). They are totally different machines and only one of them is a sports car (the other is a very nice attempt to articulate a Japanese e46 330i on the discount rack).

we find that cars like the twins are rarely made because even many automotive journalists don’t have a clue.

 

[Singleminded]

Visibility is not an issue. Adjust mirrors just like you have to do in the 86 ( at least in the camaro they auto tilt down in reverse! - i miss that feature ), run seat at proper height, the car shrinks around you. Visibility is like RTV causing engines failures.. one person bitched about it and every idiot there after repeats it. Go from 911 or boxster to Camaro, yeah you'll notice the long hood, but 86 to Camaro - which I can do on daily, not much difference.

The 86 throttle mapping is pure garbage in comparison though.. and other has 650hp which it puts down butter smooth. No nasty wheels hop or unpredictable rear end movements.

Those 900lbs.. some of them were used for transmission that shits properly under ALL conditions, some were use for sound deadening and some for biggg ass engine that everyone LOVES to swap into stuff... esp 86 twins and interior that doesn't smash into your knee while trying to step into it. Welcome aboard, let me introduce you to sharp end of the dash.

Side by side, there are differences, but less weight of my 86 does not makes up for all the things it lacks in comparison and other is now a 5 yr old car. Let's not forget mark up issue that many saw in last 2 years.. $30K 86 ... asking in $45K+ range. GR Corolla still suffering from that crap.

Best part of it all... i'm glad there are still options!

uh, sorry you got butt hurt by my comment. I went to likely buy a Camaro, test drove it and hated the view from the drivers seat. Felt like I was in a tank turret. There's a reason people complain about it. Just as there are reasons people love this car. As I said in my post, it's a hugely impressive car. I by no means knock anyone who chose one, quite the contrary. But I personally couldn't live with the visibility from the drivers seat. I didn't try to convince you that you're wrong to love your Camaro. Don't try to convince me I'm wrong for hating the view from the drivers seat.

 

[Liquidsnake]

I told yall not to sleep on the Elantra N.

 

[Noobtber]

BMW does not make sports cars... never has with the exception of maybe the M1.

F87 M2?

 

[Liquidsnake]

BMW does not make sports cars... never has with the exception of maybe the M1.

There were many iterations of the M3 that were absolute sports cars no? 2-door E36 was a sports car! Super Raw. The last decade, I agree though, or when ever they got rid of the 2 door M3.

 

[Noobtber]

There were many iterations of the M3 that were absolute sports cars no? 2-door E36 was a sports car! Super Raw. The last decade, I agree though, or when ever they got rid of the 2 door M3.

It feels like everyone is forgetting about the Z4 and M2. The most recent M2 is a heavy GT, but the F87 first came out in 2016. If you consider the new supra a sports car, the Z4 shares the platform and engine.

 

[Singleminded]

Even on this forum of Twins enthusiasts, we're unlikely to agree on the definition of "sports car." It's one of those debates that will never end. Personally, I like the term that's sometimes applied to the Twins -- "pure sports car" -- to differentiate it from sporty cars that are compromised in one of the traditional sports car virtues of light weight, small size, RWD, and quickness that's not at the expense of handling.

On this list, only the Twins and the Miata seem to fully qualify for the "pure sports car" label. In the next tier down (do we call it "a more-or-less sports car"?) I'd put the WRX, GR Corolla, Mustang, Camaro and BMW 2 Series. In some cases because they are RWD and in the others because while AWD they are relatively small and light in addition to being relatively quick and good handlers.

I don't think it's fair to say that a FWD car can't be a sports car -- look at the Civic Type R -- but now I think you're in some kind of sub category of sports cars.

Then you have things like the Challenger. Here I have to draw a line in the sand on the use of the term sports car! It's certainly appealing on several levels, but I just can't put anything that huge into this category. If we call a Challenger a sports car we might as well call things like the Cayenne or Urus sports cars too!

See, a debate that will never end.

 

[TxDivemaster]

I don't like Hurst Magazines anyway. Signed up for free trial subscription and got spam from all magazines, publications, and had to unsign from every one.

Me too 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

 

[BRZerker]

Visibility is not an issue. Adjust mirrors just like you have to do in the 86 ( at least in the camaro they auto tilt down in reverse! - i miss that feature ), run seat at proper height, the car shrinks around you. Visibility is like RTV causing engines failures.. one person bitched about it and every idiot there after repeats it. Go from 911 or boxster to Camaro, yeah you'll notice the long hood, but 86 to Camaro - which I can do on daily, not much difference.

The 86 throttle mapping is pure garbage in comparison though.. and other has 650hp which it puts down butter smooth. No nasty wheels hop or unpredictable rear end movements.

Those 900lbs.. some of them were used for transmission that shits properly under ALL conditions, some were use for sound deadening and some for biggg ass engine that everyone LOVES to swap into stuff... esp 86 twins and interior that doesn't smash into your knee while trying to step into it. Welcome aboard, let me introduce you to sharp end of the dash.

Side by side, there are differences, but less weight of my 86 does not makes up for all the things it lacks in comparison and other is now a 5 yr old car. Let's not forget mark up issue that many saw in last 2 years.. $30K 86 ... asking in $45K+ range. GR Corolla still suffering from that crap.

Best part of it all... i'm glad there are still options!

My comment on visibility is based on having sat in a 6th gen. I don't doubt I'd get used to it, just not what I enjoy. My ideal front end view from a sports car is the 1st gen NSX personally, phenomenal visibility.

I can't really comment on the 86 throttle mapping as a BRZ owner, hopefully will have a chance to drive one later on. The BRZ is very linear though, no problems modulating it mid-corner.

I think the fun of the BRZ (and similar cars like the s2000, Miata, etc.) is they're slow enough to where you can redline multiple gears and not be going jail speeds. You can also be full throttle a lot in empty canyons and they're narrow and light enough where you can chuck them in and balance them on throttle in corners and have some breathing room within the lane. And when you bring them to the track, you don't have to worry about going through expensive consumables.

The SS 1LE doesn't really check any of those boxes. It's superior to those cars in all performance metrics, but I'm not sure it really matters anywhere outside of the track. Everyone's use case differs though, and I'm glad you're enjoying your 1LE. It's certainly a good car, just not well suited for the mix of driving I'm doing currently.

 

[Noobtber]

I can't really comment on the 86 throttle mapping as a BRZ owner, hopefully will have a chance to drive one later on. The BRZ is very linear though, no problems modulating it mid-corner.

Compared to a modern BMW, it's crazy non linear. The last half of the BRZ pedal does nothing, making it hard to modulate when racing, imo.

 

[latapx]

So let's get this straight...a honda civic is ranked #1 and our twins are #9 and #10?

Retarded.

 

[BRZerker]

Compared to a modern BMW, it's crazy non linear. The last half of the BRZ pedal does nothing, making it hard to modulate when racing, imo.

That's interesting, I haven't really had any issues with modulating it on track (full disclosure: I've got a Cusco throttle pedal cover/extension and my car is MT). A friend with an ap2 s2000 and I swapped cars a few times in the canyons and neither of us noticed anything strange about the throttle mapping with the BRZ other than it being less responsive to quick transient blips.

 

[Singleminded]

That's interesting, I haven't really had any issues with modulating it on track (full disclosure: I've got a Cusco throttle pedal cover/extension and my car is MT). A friend with an ap2 s2000 and I swapped cars a few times in the canyons and neither of us noticed anything strange about the throttle mapping with the BRZ other than it being less responsive to quick transient blips.

Unlike many others here I don't find the 86 throttle to be too sensitive on tip -- and that despite the fact that my other car is a 4Runner, which is often lambasted for having an excessively lazy throttle. Pedal Commanders are a big thing with 4Runner owners, so they can get more acceleration with less pedal pressure.

But there's definitely something funky with the 86 that I can't quite put my finger on. it's really hard to get consistent rev matching. I've tended to think that's more about the motor than the throttle, but maybe not?

The one irritant with the throttle that I am sure of is the fact that it does absolutely nothing -- and I mean nothing, zero, nada -- in its last inch or so of travel. That's just crazy. Just give me a pedal that doesn't depress far enough to get into that useless zone, that would resolve my main beef with it. Sheesh.