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Manual vs Automatic Transmission

36K views 376 replies 57 participants last post by  BRZtoch 
#1 ·
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I am an old guy who has driven/owned many fast cars,motorcycles,3 wheelers, and I still have my 88 Quadzilla. The point is that I love to drive fast and always have. I am unclear about the hatred of automatic transmissions in the GR. I had a corvette that lifted the front end off the ground at 135. I had an automatic 2013 FRS as my sales rep job in SoCal traffic doing 35000 miles a year (😒) and I loved having the automatic. I had 1 of 350 1993 RX7's in CYM and it was the best driving car at high speed. I did 184 in that 5 speed and it stuck to the road like glue. With dual clutch automatic transmissions they have become quicker than ever before. I looked up some supercars and many have automatic transmissions such as the 2022 Mclaren 720S( 0 to 60 in 2.8 ang gets 22mpg ). If you happen to see an old guy passing you in an orange SE automatic its possibly me so just wave, beep your horn and smile because my knees are bad so I can't push a clutch anymore and I can barely see you. The real advantage of driving the manual these days is that you feel more engaged in the driving process AND that ALOT of people don't know how to do it. If you read my rambling thoughts, I thank you and happy motoring however you choose to do it... I hope to live long enough to take delivery LOL
 
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#93 ·
Returning to the actual car in this everlasting battle of MT vs AT, I would like to offer an opinion that comes from decades of fast driving. I learned to drive a stick on a 67 Spitfire and honed my drifting skills in a 90 240sx so yes, I can walk the walk. What seem to be missing here is that there is more to the joy of driving than just shifting gears. The thrill of being able to gauge the perfect speed and line to hold a fast curve or thread the needle in high speed passing is more important to me.
The added bonus of AT is being able to keep both hands gripping the wheel as you take a left turn at 90 km/h and I can tell you from experience that you will squeal before this car does.
 
#95 ·
...in this everlasting battle of MT vs AT...What seem to be missing here is that there is more to the joy of driving than just shifting gears. The thrill of being able to gauge the perfect speed and line to hold a fast curve or thread the needle in high speed passing is more important to me. The added bonus of AT is being able to keep both hands gripping the wheel as you take a left turn at 90 km/h and I can tell you from experience that you will squeal before this car does.
Eloquently stated.
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#116 ·
Yeah, that 5.4 was with rollout too. So that's like 5.7 if you're not at a dragstrip and just using a stopwatch from a dig. Still a really good time with a perfect launch and conditions though as you said. If you're under 6s, then you're already doing better than the Toyota quoted 6.1s either way.
 
#122 ·
I know people love eyesight but it’s annoying in my homies ascent. If you like to butter your way backing into a parking spot with a little vigor it literally loses its shit and brakes for you. Super irritating. It’s based around grandma driving and anything spicier than that it loses it.
 
#131 ·
Sometimes I read these forums as a bed time story. Here’s how the bedtime story went tonight for me.

There once was a peaceful village where each person drove the GR86/BRZ they liked. Some automatics. Others manuals.

Many drove their cars sideways. 😜 It was fun to do you see. Both cars were capable of doing so too. Some liked to take pictures of their car all day long and imagine the next upgrade they were going to screw or unscrew out of it. The options seemed endless to the owners 😌, and monetarily lucrative to others further driving the capitalistic structure that may have intentionally and subliminally given birth to auto enthusiasm in the first place.

👀
)o(

One day, they decided they would gather in the town square and each take turns stating that they purchased the car they liked …because they liked it. 🧐 Each to their own. All leaving peaceably at the end of each discussion with very adequately sized peckers. 😌 You see, in that day everyone could tell you the ambient temperature and depth of a common urinal. They were truly great times.

Then one day a manual transmission driver asked if the automatic transmission owner liked the manual transmission or the automatic transmission better as it applied to their car choice. 🤨

Though the answer seemed obvious due to the chosen drive type each person chose to purchase and drive daily and stuff, it was decided to be brought to the public square as a general discussion. 🤷🏻‍♂️

And because this somewhat obvious but moot point was ignored, a mfr got punched in the face.

the end
 
#133 ·
Sometimes I read these forums as a bed time story. Here’s how the bedtime story went tonight for me.

There once was a peaceful village where each person drove the GR86/BRZ they liked. Some automatics. Others manuals.

Many drove their cars sideways. 😜 It was fun to do you see. Both cars were capable of doing so too. Some liked to take pictures of their car all day long and imagine the next upgrade they were going to screw or unscrew out of it. The options seemed endless to the owners 😌, and monetarily lucrative to others further driving the capitalistic structure that may have intentionally and subliminally given birth to auto enthusiasm in the first place.

👀
)o(

One day, they decided they would gather in the town square and each take turns stating that they purchased the car they liked …because they liked it. 🧐 Each to their own. All leaving peaceably at the end of each discussion with very adequately sized peckers. 😌 You see, in that day everyone could tell you the ambient temperature and depth of a common urinal. They were truly great times.

Then one day a manual transmission driver asked if the automatic transmission owner liked the manual transmission or the automatic transmission better as it applied to their car choice. 🤨

Though the answer seemed obvious due to the chosen drive type each person chose to purchase and drive daily and stuff, it was decided to be brought to the public square as a general discussion. 🤷🏻‍♂️

And because this somewhat obvious but moot point was ignored, a mfr got punched in the face.

the end
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#134 · (Edited)
I'm with @TRU-BOOST on this. Through the years my 2 door sports cars were my daily driver, but you cannot be a middle class home owner with a sport coupe alone. So before I bought my 'Vette I got myself a K5 Blazer. Big open 4 wheel drive with an automatic transmission. Since then I've had several trucks to go with my daily driver, all automatic transmissions. The automatic transmission is perfect for a truck not because of any "superior" attributes. But because trucks are so handy that everyone from your "significant other" to your work buddies will want to borrow it. Why not, its a truck, and everybody can drive an automatic. Its not like your going to take it drifting ( your load will shift and make a mess). Snow, mud, gravel. Everybody can drive an automatic. But for my private, nobody drives it but me sports toy...
 
#136 ·
I like autos. Sometimes I love them. And I would have at least considered the auto for my GR86 if not for one very big issue: the autos come with active safety tech. I don’t want robots being able to control my car. Especially robots connected to the internet. I don’t criticize anyone who finds the presumed/likely/possible added safety to be worth it. That’s fine. But I wanted to get one of the last new cars available that does not have these systems. That it also came with a manual was to me another plus, espec since I don’t need to daily mine.
 
#137 · (Edited)
Legitimately the last... Best Car just released an article showing the 3rd gen 86/BRZ are coming in 2025 due to emissions (AT+MT) and safety regs (MT) and how the 2nd gen doesn't meet them for the EU and some other regions. They actually have a 3rd gen test mule now apparently, following the GR86s with the 1.6L installed, and the earlier first gen that was adapted to use hybrid systems. It is all Toyota, built on a shortened IS platform, using the 1.6L turbo + hybrid.


Translation:

Aiming to debut in 2025, the next-generation 86/BRZ is already under development. In contrast to the current model, which was developed mainly by Subaru, it is said that development is being led by Toyota (anticipated CG created by the best car editorial department).

As the movement toward decarbonization progresses, there are concerns about the continuation of pure engine sports. One of them is the GR86, but there are plans for the next model, and development has already begun. And the development system will change in the next model.

Both the first generation and the current model have been made with Subaru's horizontally opposed engine and platform, but the next model will be developed with Toyota's engineering. The current plan is to combine the engine with a 1.6L 3-cylinder turbo of GR Yaris or GR Corolla with a 2-clutch 1-motor hybrid system. Of course, the drive system inherits FR. It is information that the platform will adopt the Lexus IS for FR with a short wheelbase.

A test bed with a power unit installed in the chassis has just been completed, and full-scale development is still to come. The next model will survive with electrification, but the point is to make it hybrid. The hybrid is directly connected to the engine, which is used in the new crown crossover, etc., and is characterized by the ability to enjoy driving with a sense of directness. The 1.6L turbo, which produces 272ps in the GR Yaris, is further improved in power performance by the hybrid motor assist, and is compatible with fuel efficiency. It seems to be a power unit suitable for next-generation sports.

At the same time, the Subaru BRZ is also planned to be renewed. Debut is expected in 2025.

Toyota new GR86 expected specs:
・Length: 4400mm
・Width: 1800mm
・Height: 1300mm
・Wheelbase : 2600mm
・Vehicle weight: 1350kg
・Power unit: 1.6L, direct 3DOHC + turbo + motor
・Maximum output/maximum torque: 272ps/37.7kgm
・System maximum output: 320-330ps
・Transmission: 6MT/6AT
・Estimated price: 4-4.5 million yen
 
#143 ·
I'm def interested to see what the hybrid brings to the table. I think it's going to improve mpg significantly in town and give a nice healthy torque bump because the 1.6L has been quoted as being fairly lifeless under 2500rpm by owners and reviewers alike (small displacement and higher output will do that).
 
#142 ·
Well, that part is not clear IMO. Either the new BRZ will be simply a rebadged Toyota (what I thought they're saying here) or will completely diverge into it's own thing. Subaru confirmed they are working on Eyesight for their manuals for the 2025 mandates cutoff, but does that mean for the ZD8 (+WRX), a third gen in-house BRZ, or the Toyota option.
 
#145 ·
I agree with being a stopgap, but I disagree with them not being a good technological solution; they have their place like anything.

The ICE doesn't posses the proper response and mpg, the BEV doesn't posses the noise, excitement, and possibly range. Thus we have the hybrid which allows both to exist together without losing each quality entirely. It's an excellent solution when done well IMO.

Although PHEV are arguably the best combo I think.
 
#146 ·
I am thinking that would be
I agree with being a stopgap, but I disagree with them not being a good technological solution; they have their place like anything.


Although PHEV are arguably the best combo I think.
You had me until that last sentence. 😆
Hybrids have their place for good MPG without range anxiety like an EV. But if I were to get one it would have to be a mild hybrid that required me to do no extra tasks. If I have to fuel up and ICE car, fine. If I have to plug in an EV, fine. I definitely dont want to deal with plugging in and fueling up the same car all the time. One or the other for me. For most people that is the case as well because the useable electric range on a PHEV is far lower than the average persons daily commute.
 
#148 ·
I’m of the mind that the goal of EV adoption is emissions reduction. Most of the cars (70%) on the road can be swapped to an EV with no real detriment in user experience. Is mom driving 6 miles back and forth to school to drop the kids off every day in her Chevy Blazer going to have a meaningfully worse experience with an EV? No.

Is the office worker fellow who dailys an F-150 (that has never towed or hauled a day in its life as most don’t) 12 miles back and forth to the office every day going to be negatively impacted in any way by a Lightning? No.

But there are also vehicles in which there IS a meaningful difference. Work trucks, sports cars (especially lightweight ones) and cheapo economy cars. If an Elantra already gets 40 mpg, maybe let’s focus on getting the ICE yachts off the road as efficiently as possible before we go after ICE vehicles that are already pretty efficient. Electrifying/hybridizing an inexpensive sports car like ours just seems like a waste on multiple fronts.
 
#149 · (Edited)
The negative impact of a societal switch to BEV is going to be really bad. I'm skeptical of the accepted notion of some "expert" class in government and academe - acting under the control and direction of corrupt crony politicians and their crony business interests - setting compulsory public policy to corral the ignorant masses into compliance with their self-serving directives. In the last 120 years or so since the concept of "progressivism" was introduced to the US, the only thing it's done is progress the country into bigger and more intractable social and economic dislocations in order to enrich the connected few at the expense of the disenfranchised many.

The policy of pushing BEVs is going to end up in disaster with an overloaded electrical infrastructure, ecological devastation from mining, human slavery / bondage / child labor, competition for scarce minerals that will lead to conflict and hot wars, industrial malinvestment on an unprecedented scale that will result in an economic crisis, and ultimately people unable to freely move about in their daily lives because the BEV they were forced to buy - that can't be charged due to power grid failure - is only worth its scrap value and they can't afford or find an ICE vehicle to replace it. And the "expert" architects of the disaster and their corrupt puppeteers in government & industry will get off Scot-free and never be held accountable for the destruction and misery they perpetrated.
 
#155 ·
Which is ironic, because the end goal throughout the 20th century was to end rail transportation by regulating it to death and enabling automobiles and trucks as the primary means of transportation by unprecedented use of eminent domain and gargantuan public spending on endless roadbuilding. The "experts" changed their minds...
 
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