Toyota GR86 Forum - GT86 Forum, Subaru BRZ Forum, Scion ... banner
1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
823 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hi Guys,

New here. First post. Hi!

I own a 2017 BRZ that I love to drive in Montreal winters (with 16" steelies and good snows). I am now quite used to the behaviour of the VSC and of the Torsen. I know that if I really want to accelerate in a straight line, the VSC is crucial for keeping the Torsen in check - even at 20 mph. As soon as 2 or 3 degrees of yaw are detected, fuel is cut off for a split second and one rear brake is applied - works pretty well and you can just about be as aggressive on the gas as you like. In fact, you can't really finesse this car when things are really snowy because the Torsen will bite you at surprisingly low speed (much lower than the Torsen on my NB Miata) even with the best snow tires (I ran studded for two winters), so why even try? (Note that I do love Track mode for tail-out fun in 1st and 2nd gears around the neighborhood, but I would never use it at higher speed in the snow because I know from experience that if you are rotating fast enough, the nannies can't catch you.)

So I would like thoughts on the 2022's VSC. I heard that the default mode is now more permissive ("more yaw rate allowed" is what I read). That might be bad news for me in the winter. Is this true? Are we talking about rate or attitude? Has anyone observed higher angles before intervention? Anyone actually accidently gotten sideways with VSC on? (Again, I mean with proper winter tires and in comparison to 2017-20 cars.)

I just put money down on a 2022, but am a little unsure now. I need it to be at least as useable in the winter as my 2017 - which does OK for 98% of Canadian winter days.

I know it's still really early, but thanks for any feedback.

Cheers,
Louis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Hi, Louis. I had a 2017 Toyota 86. I live in West Michigan—lots of snow. I ran 16" steel wheel with winter tires. The car plugged along through all winter weather. I loved it. I always ran it with stability control fully off and relied on my right foot for control of the wheel spin. It worked great. I don't agree that VSC is crucial for keeping the Torsen in check. I found the Torsen to be very predictable and progressive—adding traction. I have a 2022 GR86 on order and I'm eager to run it in Michigan winters. I'll likely run 17-inch wheels with winter tires but we'll see. I have zero concerns about the 2022 GR86 having any issues in the winter. I can't wait for a return to rear-wheel drive and focused driving dynamics for winter driving.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
My foot must be heavier than yours, Marc! But thank you for the feedback.
Hi, Louis. I have a lot of track experience and enjoy fine adjustments with the throttle and steering wheel. I am actually a big fan of VSC and I like having it 'on' at higher speeds on public roads (and ran it 'on' most of the time in the dry/wet in my old 86—unless I was having a bit of fun). I just didn't like how it cut power under acceleration in the snow—especially as the car naturally yawed (oversteered). So, I ran it 'off' most of the time in the snow. I found the old 86 regularly (always!) stepped the tail out in the snow but a bit of countersteer and throttle management controlled it beautifully. I never spun my old 86 (unless I was trying!) but it sure loved to go sideway—in a predictable and lovely way. You just have to drive through the oversteer (let the car oversteer and then counter it with throttle and steering input). I can't wait for the GR86 to arrive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
823 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Hey Marc. Don't misunderstand. I am not talking about oversteer in slippery conditions. I'm going on my fifth winter with the BRZ and I'm constantly looking for good places to intentionally put it sideways for a second or two or three. Like U-turns, roundabouts, street corners with an extra lane to keep clear of the curb. And, of course, parking lots.

No, I mean that the VSC is needed when I'm trying to keep it in my lane between the curb and the SUV beside me and the rear suddenly kicks out as I'm (gently) accelerating on this straight snow-covered street. Not going around a corner, but going in a straight line.

This is the dual nature of the limited-slip in winter. Helpful to get moving, but deadly when both wheels unexpectedly break loose without warning. Fortunately, in this scenario the VSC quickly and very briefly kicks in to correct the attitude, usually in a single try, and before I can even react. Not even a pucker moment.

I am just worried that if the recipe has been changed in 2022 and the VSC now kicks in a fraction later (because it is more "permissive"), then it will happen exactly as I'm manually correcting. That leads to overcorrecting, and worse trouble.

I think default VSC mode is perfect in 2017-20 cars (as is Track mode!). (I don't find the Torsen particularly progressive though, but that is the subject of another discussion.) If they really want to allow more everyday thrills, rather than loosening the default mode they could make Track mode default and allow you to temporarily switch to full safety net when weather gets nasty.

Cheers,
Louis
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
I wouldn't be too concerned, Louis. VSC is a wonderful safety net but shouldn't be relied upon. Picking the right gear and being careful with your throttle inputs (you're already running the right tires) is key. I can't imagine the VSC on the new GR86/BRZ will cause any winter safety concerns. There's a difference between VSC behavior in aggressive/fun driving and the VSC behavior in normal winter driving. If the VSC tuning of the new car does cause things to be different in winter driving (vs. the old car), you'll surely adapt. Remember the new car does have more torque (which means you should be able to run a taller gear than you could in the old car).
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top