My N54 died with 85K miles. So, no I don't think the engine is great. My car was stock, babied and maintained meticulously. And, yes, add on the myriad electrical and other gremlins.

 

Those were definitely not the pinnacle of BMW reliability. One of the best for making gobs of power, perhaps the worst for reliability outside of some of the engines on M cars the the initial attempt at a turbo 4 cylinder.

Stories of the N54 just grenading seem rare though.

 

I had a guy in a GT4 come up to me last event and tell me "man you were hustling that thing! When you gave me the point by I thought I'd be GONE but heading into the next straight you were still there!" I'll take that compliment! lol Then he got on the power and was gone. lol

 

The GR86 was down nearly 200 whp on the Supra and was on less sticky tires but nearly matched its laptime with just suspension/brake mods.

That's crazy impressive no matter how you look at it. It's actually hard to believe (speaking as a track guy). If they didn't show it on video with the pro driver behind the wheel, I don't think I'd believe their lap times frankly.

 

No doubt that the GR86 is close in that specific environment. It's what the car is all about. But I have my serious doubt about the OP wondering about lap times at a race track.

 

I actually am wondering about track times.

 

i chuckle quite a bit at this. its like the 1990s all over again in this regard. the miata was reborn as a twin in 2022 and some of you think it is rewriting history. doing things never done before. we've never seen a cheap, lightweight car *almost match a heavier, more expensive one on a small race track.

i think these cars are great. fun, affordable drivers cars that offer a lot for the money. i haven't said anything false about this car vs a supra.

acceptance is the last step in the grieving process, it is certainly highlighted in threads like these 🤣

 

that is quite a strawman. throw on coilovers and brakes on a civic si and if it performs close to a type r/type s/focus rs on a small-ish track, at least some of us would be amused. doesnt mean anyone thinks they're witnessing history

referring to yourself about the acceptance phase? 😉 you seem to be the only one who continues to complain about its speed. i think the rest of us accepted it the moment we walked into the dealership, and are just having fun with how it compares to the competition

 

What is "factual"? Lap times? Zero to 60? Quarter mile? 0 to 100 to 0? Skip pad G's? Even objective measures can greatly differ between people. I don't care about acceleration, but do take lap times as a proxy to good handling.
Also, what's wrong with an emotional discuss about cars? The best conversations I have (regardless of topic) are about finding a common ground and expending from there. I you and I both love the Twins we can compare how our experience of BMW and Porsche compare, and hopefully come out wiser about which cars would we like or not.

I didn't give specific examples because I wanted to avoid starting another debate on what is factual😂 It could be any of those things, or engineering/mechanical design

Agree with you on emotional conversations. I just dont want people to read into it too much

Part of the fun with enthusiast communities is when they go out of their way to look for similarities even though everyone well knows the cars are worlds apart

 

Very much depends on what do you mean by "better" and "beat".
Performance? Unless you engine swap or put some serious forced induction, the Supra will always have much higher straight line performance (and mod-for-mod would probably still be well ahead).
Looks? Purely subjective. I like how both cars look, and don't like cosmetic mods.
Track times? Assuming the same driver and tire compound, the Supra has a big power advantage and wider tires stock. Both modded the Supra will probably still out-corner a Twin thanks to more rubber, but it's hard to say as the Twin's lower weight does help, and specific suspension geometries, mods and alignment can have an impact as well. The Twin would be cheaper to mod to the same level, though, so for the same budget the Supra might be behind (except for power).
Street fun? Again subjective, but I would argue that you can't get around 500 extra pounds on the Supra, nor the BMW origins (that used to be a compliment, not any more, though). The Twins excel at driver enjoyment in twisty roads. If you are looking for that shove in the back or winning red light drag races, the Supra will be more fun.
Budget? You got him beat here. Half the price to buy, probably half the price to mod.
Reliability? Tough call, Subaru vs BMW. I'd guess the Twins would be more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

Disclaimer - I never drove a Supra, all impressions on the Supra are based on online reviews and community discussions.

Thank you so much! This is the exact information I was looking for! I will really take into consideration what you said here.

Very much depends on what do you mean by "better" and "beat".
Performance? Unless you engine swap or put some serious forced induction, the Supra will always have much higher straight line performance (and mod-for-mod would probably still be well ahead).
Looks? Purely subjective. I like how both cars look, and don't like cosmetic mods.
Track times? Assuming the same driver and tire compound, the Supra has a big power advantage and wider tires stock. Both modded the Supra will probably still out-corner a Twin thanks to more rubber, but it's hard to say as the Twin's lower weight does help, and specific suspension geometries, mods and alignment can have an impact as well. The Twin would be cheaper to mod to the same level, though, so for the same budget the Supra might be behind (except for power).
Street fun? Again subjective, but I would argue that you can't get around 500 extra pounds on the Supra, nor the BMW origins (that used to be a compliment, not any more, though). The Twins excel at driver enjoyment in twisty roads. If you are looking for that shove in the back or winning red light drag races, the Supra will be more fun.
Budget? You got him beat here. Half the price to buy, probably half the price to mod.
Reliability? Tough call, Subaru vs BMW. I'd guess the Twins would be more reliable and cheaper to maintain.

Disclaimer - I never drove a Supra, all impressions on the Supra are based on online reviews and community discussions.
[/Q

 

Whenever people say "what do I need to do to the BRZ/86 to beat x car in straightline", it always makes me chuckle. I often wonder what's more enjoyable? Having constant straightline acceleration at 0.4G or holding a sustained 1.2G through the corners? Mind you, c8 z06 does 0.5G constant acceleration max; there isn't a reliable solution for our cars to do that.

I guess my real question is that, do you want to be a better driver or do you want a better machine? 🤷‍♂️

What car is that?

What car is that?

Yea I think he means a Supra but not 100% sure

You could go straight to a C8 Corvette and laugh as you 'beat' him at almost every metric 😁

lol

 

I don’t understand the reliability argument. I’ve never heard of a Supra destroying itself on a right turn lol. Toyota having more reliable engines than BMW? Sure. Subaru? Hell no

 

I had a 2012 BMW Z4 that was stock, babied and well maintained. The engine failed catastrophically at 85K miles.

 

Nobody else brought this up but a catback exhaust won’t make the car faster

Yea, I know I'm not stupid, I just want the car to sound good.

 

Is it a Supra 3.0L or Supra 2.0L?

Assuming 3.0L(stock): Realistically, a supra would be better on a track as most tracks have many long straights that favor nearly any car with more power, even if they are heavy cars that cant corner well, but the Supra can corner pretty decent too. But if you modded a GRZ(GR86/BRZ lol) to match the lap times of a Supra 3.0, ignoring the cost because we dont buy sports cars to be sensible with money lol, you might not like a GRZ as much since you would need wider tires for to put the power down on a light weight car, and it would make the interior much louder from tire noise, and thus it would change the car's character from "playful" to more "race-serious", and not everyone likes that, just an FYI.

But for a quick reference of what it would take to match the approximate power-to-weight of a stock GR Supra 3.0:

Supra 3.0(stock)
3400lbs
388whp
8.7lbs per whp

GRZ(stock)
2800lbs
215whp
13.0lbs per whp

GRZ (modded with supercharger and maybe boltons)
2800lbs (probably 2700lbs after mods)
321whp (or 307whp if at 2700lbs)
8.7lbs per whp

 

I went on a track day in Spa.
In curves you can get a GR Yaris if you know what to do. So you could get a supra as well.
But on the straight the GR Yaris went like a rocket, and the supra will do it even better.

But same driver, no way with the 86.