Which is the better buy or value. 30,650 vs 41k. Is the 11k extra worth it.What will depreciate less in 3 years.
Gr86 vs Nissan Z
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Gr8669
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I debated on this idea for a while.
Here is where I ended up.
A properly modded base model GR86 is going to be a faster track car than a base model Z. (as the $40k Z will cost you $43k with tax)
So for $43k total into a GR86 - you could do the following:
Essex AP brakes: $2600
Track coilovers: $2300
Track tires: $1300
Track wheels: $1200
Exhaust: $700
Turbo kit: $4500
Tune: $500
In theory - you'd be making a bit less HP in a car that weighs 600lbs less while having more grip, more traction, and a factory diff. In theory with the base model Z you'd need an aftermarket diff and better tires just to get the power down and corner - and by then you're looking at $47k in - and its still getting beat by the modded GR86. Sure you can tune the Z, put coilovers on it - but now you're hovering around $50k and then you'd be tossing punches at the theoretical GR86 - but thats a big money difference.
Just some cents.
Here is where I ended up.
A properly modded base model GR86 is going to be a faster track car than a base model Z. (as the $40k Z will cost you $43k with tax)
So for $43k total into a GR86 - you could do the following:
Essex AP brakes: $2600
Track coilovers: $2300
Track tires: $1300
Track wheels: $1200
Exhaust: $700
Turbo kit: $4500
Tune: $500
In theory - you'd be making a bit less HP in a car that weighs 600lbs less while having more grip, more traction, and a factory diff. In theory with the base model Z you'd need an aftermarket diff and better tires just to get the power down and corner - and by then you're looking at $47k in - and its still getting beat by the modded GR86. Sure you can tune the Z, put coilovers on it - but now you're hovering around $50k and then you'd be tossing punches at the theoretical GR86 - but thats a big money difference.
Just some cents.
Based on some of the in-depth conversation between journalists about the new Z, it sounds like it really hasn't been sorted out. While the front might grip well, the rear is apparently not communicative at all and will step out in a non-progressive way. Plus, it has some bizarre system configurations. A few examples: It doesn't want to rev in neutral as it limits throttle, you can't left foot brake or it will immediately cut power, you can't bounce off the limiter as it will cut power, and if you let off the throttle at all during launch, you lose no-lift shift so you can't feather the throttle if there is wheelspin when launching. The new Z is obviously quicker but if any of the aforementioned issues make it to production, the GR86/BRZ are definitely better driver's cars.
Hammer vs scalpel cliche. I prefer scalpels and 3600 lbs for a "sports car" is a hard sell. One is a pure sports car. The other is a Grand Tourer sitting on a chassis conceived around the year 2000 with more weight and more stuff. I'd rather have a 370Z. 300 lbs lighter, hydraulic steering and naturally aspirated. But either gen 86 over any Z ever made. They're more fun. Simple as that.
Been watching a ton of vids about the Nissan Z. It really throws me off when they keep referring to similarities to the 370z. While the GR86 can show that kind of similarity to the FR-S/GT86/BRZ first gen, it at least makes more sense given the price point. For $10k to 20k more, I'd expect something more bespoke, not the "same relative differences from a Gen 1 to Gen 2 BRZ" in terms of engine, LSD, suspension tuning/engineering, rebody.
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3,219 Posts
yeah, I've watched just about every review I can find and I agree that the new Z appears to have a fair amount of oddities in the way it performs. It also bothers me that it has ancient climate controls despite everything else being newish in the interior. But that's perhaps inline with the rest of the car, old with a bunch of new pasted in various areas lol.
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339 Posts
how much different is the S550 chassis when compared to S197?
From what I recall, it is almost carry over, with the addition of the IRS that was developed during S197 program, but postponed due to cost
Or you buy the base GR86 and put 5k into and follow both cars in every aspect but long straights. This assumes an e85 tune is available.
Wheels, tires, brakes and e85 will really make you a pain in the ass for a lot of much much more expensive cars. (Assuming similar gains to the gen1)
Wheels, tires, brakes and e85 will really make you a pain in the ass for a lot of much much more expensive cars. (Assuming similar gains to the gen1)
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339 Posts
230-240whp on the twins would be a blast. I have my oft from previous gen waiting, but I am willing to sell and buy a new version to support Shiv on his work
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339 Posts
I am taking in account the full bolt-on plus e85. Not sure if I am going to jump on the early iterations of the tuning and I may even a little bit until flex fuel is available. Not sure how a normal tuning will work in this engine
I am hoping the the sprintex 335 will be supported. I am willing to bet all the positive displacement blowers from gen 1 bolt right up and will just need new tunes. Of all the options gen 1 had for superchargers the sprintex was on the low end for peak power. It provides good gains through all RPM but really does well in the mid range. Its less efficient than the Edelbrock that uses a TVS blower. But being a lifelong ford guy I need my supercharger to go "wwwhhhheeeeeeeeeee". The sprintex makes all the right noises.
Getting a feeling from your other post about the fa24 power delivery, would you prefer the broad powerband or would you rather have a more peaky powerband for a) more peak hp gains and b) more of a dramatic feeling pull?
Here is the basic problem. At 41K it is easy to think your getting an absolute steal on a 400HP V6 Nissan Z. talking about bang for the buck, especially compared to the Supra. Body wise its a pretty car in a nostalgic way.
I applaud Nissan for the beautiful retro styling. From a straight-line performance perspective, the Z annialates the twins. But when you dig deeper the base Z is missing 2 very important performance pieces that it vially needs. the first is the LSD. With all that power this car is going to be a handful in any cornering situation. The next important item missing are the lack of 4 piston calipers for the brakes. On a back road those brakes are going to give out. I don't know what the cost would be for an aftermarket LSD. It has yet to be developed. Redoing the brakes is not going to be cheap. So when you factor in those 2 things plus larger wheels and tires, you are probably over the 51 K for the performance package Z. A base Z is an unbalanced car. This is not the case with the twins. So if you are just into the stop light wars the base Z is for you. However if you want the complete sportscar you have to go with the 51K performance Z or go cheap and by one of the Twins.
I applaud Nissan for the beautiful retro styling. From a straight-line performance perspective, the Z annialates the twins. But when you dig deeper the base Z is missing 2 very important performance pieces that it vially needs. the first is the LSD. With all that power this car is going to be a handful in any cornering situation. The next important item missing are the lack of 4 piston calipers for the brakes. On a back road those brakes are going to give out. I don't know what the cost would be for an aftermarket LSD. It has yet to be developed. Redoing the brakes is not going to be cheap. So when you factor in those 2 things plus larger wheels and tires, you are probably over the 51 K for the performance package Z. A base Z is an unbalanced car. This is not the case with the twins. So if you are just into the stop light wars the base Z is for you. However if you want the complete sportscar you have to go with the 51K performance Z or go cheap and by one of the Twins.
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