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GR86 Track Review (stock and lightly modded)

846 Views 17 Replies 8 Participants Last post by ruturaj1989, 13 d ago

BRZerker

Discussion Starter · 16 d ago

Garage Days reviews a stock and a lightly modded GR86 (Cup 2's, BBK). The review is in Spanish but it's one of the most thorough reviews I've seen, including laptime data vs. other cars.

The reviewer seemed to really enjoy the experience of driving these cars. He looked exhausted after setting the fast laps haha

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BRZtoch

· #2 · 16 d ago

Favorite quote from the video:

“…the touch it has is from a car from many years ago. The driving feel, the sensations that it transmits to you, it is not from a modern car, it is from a car from many years ago but with this precision of now, I liked it very much, very much, very much.“

^ This is literally the PR statement that this car is.

Love this man’s passion for this car from driving it hard on the track. Love this car. There’s some fear-mongering, though perhaps just unintentionally, with this car. But…even if the engine is grenadable or people are nervous about RTV being a sneaking murderer of their engine like is told in the folk stories of 2022…lol I would buy this car over and over and over again. Those who sell this car for something else have taken something special for granted In my opinion. I will hold onto my 2023 to my grave…I wouldn’t mind it serving as my casket actually. 🤔 can I have that arranged?

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Reactions: 4

BRZerker

Discussion Starter · #3 · 16 d ago

BRZtoch said:
Favorite quote from the video:

“…the touch it has is from a car from many years ago. The driving feel, the sensations that it transmits to you, it is not from a modern car, it is from a car from many years ago but with this precision of now, I liked it very much, very much, very much.“

^ This is literally the PR statement that this car is.

Love this man’s passion for this car from driving it hard on the track. Love this car. There’s some fear-mongering, though perhaps just unintentionally, with this car. But…even if the engine is grenadable or people are nervous about RTV being a sneaking murderer of their engine like is told in the folk stories of 2022…lol I would buy this car over and over and over again. Those who sell this car for something else have taken something special for granted In my opinion. I will hold onto my 2023 to my grave…I wouldn’t mind it serving as my casket actually. 🤔 can I have that arranged?

Haha I love my BRZ too. And yeah when he said that (while tossing the car sideways around a track), I knew he understood what makes these cars special.

Reactions: 1

vincentyang246

· #4 · 16 d ago

Okay guys, I do love my BRZ very much.

I can't help to kinda shit on the Macpherson strut design, at the limit of corner entry the car just have this hint of understeer. Like hey look you're kicking the front struts in the chin right now, better ride out this understeer characteristic. Inorder to fix this, we need to get crazy front camber to get the front really to bite. But then with more camber, the car's front has this weird jacking motion. Imagine how great will this car be with Miata's/s2k's suspension geometry. It will probably be one of the best sportcar came out of Japan, regardless how unreliable has the FA24D been (mine has been super duper reliable)

I do love how the rear is lively, but it can be stable when you need it to. The rear follows the front's motion really well.

Reactions: 2

BRZerker

Discussion Starter · #5 · 16 d ago (Edited)

vincentyang246 said:
Okay guys, I do love my BRZ very much.

I can't help to kinda shit on the Macpherson strut design, at the limit of corner entry the car just have this hint of understeer. Like hey look you're kicking the front struts in the chin right now, better ride out this understeer characteristic. Inorder to fix this, we need to get crazy front camber to get the front really to bite. But then with more camber, the car's front has this weird jacking motion. Imagine how great will this car be with Miata's/s2k's suspension geometry. It will probably be one of the best sportcar came out of Japan, regardless how unreliable has the FA24D been (mine has been super duper reliable)

I do love how the rear is lively, but it can be stable when you need it to. The rear follows the front's motion really well.

What's the front jacking motion you're experiencing? Doesn't sound normal.

The front macpherson strut design is a compromise of course, largely driven by Subaru architecture and the wide boxer engine design, but the upshot is you get a bit lower COG at the front end and more importantly, static negative front camber is easy to add on these cars. Double-wishbone is obviously ideal, but macpherson strut design isn't too much of a hinderance as long as you can freely add/optimize static negative camber. I had a chance recently to drive my friend's stock suspension, max OEM camber alignment AP2 back to back with my stock suspension, double camber bolt BRZ and what was interesting was the BRZ turned in more sharply. I was surprised, so I asked my friend what he thought and he said he felt the same thing. Mid-corner the BRZ had slightly more push but was also easier to transition to oversteer with the throttle.

BTW not sure if you've seen this before, but good track comparison of AP2 S2000 CR vs. 2022 BRZ with similar mods/power/drivers and identical tires. From the video, I think the S2000 is carrying a hair more mid-corner speed, but BRZ has a little more shove coming out of corners and was ultimately faster by nearly a second. Good matchup though.

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Reactions: 2

ruturaj1989

· #6 · 16 d ago

BRZtoch said:
I will hold onto my 2023 to my grave…

Not me, I am going to buy last model year, whatever it would be, to replace my 2023 and then take that to grave.

Reactions: 2

vincentyang246

· #7 · 15 d ago

BRZerker said:
What's the front jacking motion you're experiencing? Doesn't sound normal.

The front macpherson strut design is a compromise of course, largely driven by Subaru architecture and the wide boxer engine design, but the upshot is you get a bit lower COG at the front end and more importantly, static negative front camber is easy to add on these cars. Double-wishbone is obviously ideal, but macpherson strut design isn't too much of a hinderance as long as you can freely add/optimize static negative camber. I had a chance recently to drive my friend's stock suspension, max OEM camber alignment AP2 back to back with my stock suspension, double camber bolt BRZ and what was interesting was the BRZ turned in more sharply. I was surprised, so I asked my friend what he thought and he said he felt the same thing. Mid-corner the BRZ had slightly more push but was also easier to transition to oversteer with the throttle.

BTW not sure if you've seen this before, but good track comparison of AP2 S2000 CR vs. 2022 BRZ with similar mods/power/drivers and identical tires. From the video, I think the S2000 is carrying a hair more mid-corner speed, but BRZ has a little more shove coming out of corners and was ultimately faster by nearly a second. Good matchup though.

Upward Jacking force created by the extreme KPI from the top hat. In factory form, the car has a little upward jacking force, but not as much.

These two cars are really similar when slightly modded.

It's just at the absolute limit at corner entry, s2k default to neutral but the twins default to understeer. Which is a bummer, cus there is so much time to find at corner entry. I do think that it's fixable if we give a little more caster to our car, but getting caster = money 😅

BRZerker

Discussion Starter · #8 · 15 d ago

vincentyang246 said:
Upward Jacking force created by the extreme KPI from the top hat. In factory form, the car has a little upward jacking force, but not as much.

These two cars are really similar when slightly modded.

It's just at the absolute limit at corner entry, s2k default to neutral but the twins default to understeer. Which is a bummer, cus there is so much time to find at corner entry. I do think that it's fixable if we give a little more caster to our car, but getting caster = money 😅

Wouldn't the simple solution be to gain as much camber from the knuckle before adding from the top hat? I also wonder if this is more of a theoretical constraint since some very fast 86 cars with lots of camber (like 949 Racing's FR-S with -5 degrees from the top hat) didn't seem to be struggling with jacking issues.

vincentyang246

· #9 · 15 d ago

BRZerker said:
Wouldn't the simple solution be to gain as much camber from the knuckle before adding from the top hat? I also wonder if this is more of a theoretical constraint since some very fast 86 cars with lots of camber (like 949 Racing's FR-S with -5 degrees from the top hat) didn't seem to be struggling with jacking issues.

Usually top hats give only -3 degrees. I set mine up with top hat from fortune auto + camber bolts, max I can get -4 out of the setup.

When the car is in motion, it's hard to notice the upward jacking force for sure. But nevertheless it is a component that can cause lost of traction, cus usually upward jacking force associates with gaining positive camber. (Kpi Akerman angle, all that jazz)

vincentyang246

· #10 · 15 d ago

Not saying it stops me from driving any faster tho. I just kinda drive the car with the expectation that if I'm going into the corner too hot, it will push all the way to apex 😂

BRZerker

Discussion Starter · #11 · 15 d ago

vincentyang246 said:
Not saying it stops me from driving any faster tho. I just kinda drive the car with the expectation that if I'm going into the corner too hot, it will push all the way to apex 😂

Haha yeah if you're pushing all the way to apex you’re definitely carrying way more entry speed than you’ve got grip, basically scrubbing speed using your front tires. Have to find other ways to rotate the car, whether trail-braking or changing your inputs, or maybe changing your setup.

On my track prepped FR-S, I never had any issues following similar tire, non-aero s2000’s into turns. From experience driving them, I agree s2000’s tend to be more neutral on entry and mid-corner, but overall the actual speed difference is pretty minimal. Just my experience though. There are also so many variables with setup, I’m hesitant to make broad conclusions.

DylanJZA

· #12 · 15 d ago

A dual wishbone or multi-link will always be superior for that reason, dynamic camber is adaptable and awesome. But it is what it is and it's still really good when done right

It's the reason Porsche finally added the upper A-arm on the front of the 992 GT3, but hell they did MacPherson for how many decades?

Reactions: 1

rui

· #13 · 15 d ago

Besides the different suspension geometries, 86's have a 55/45% weight distribution. The S2000 is 50/50 (with driver, a hardtop, and a full tank mine actually measured 48/52%). As a result, the S seemed to me more willing to pivot around the driver when cornering. Almost like a mid engine car.

The 86 kind of feels more like a FWD car to me. It wants to push first. Which you can counteract with the accelerator on corner exit.

Reactions: 1

latapx

· #14 · 15 d ago

vincentyang246 said:
Okay guys, I do love my BRZ very much.

I can't help to kinda shit on the Macpherson strut design, at the limit of corner entry the car just have this hint of understeer. Like hey look you're kicking the front struts in the chin right now, better ride out this understeer characteristic. Inorder to fix this, we need to get crazy front camber to get the front really to bite. But then with more camber, the car's front has this weird jacking motion. Imagine how great will this car be with Miata's/s2k's suspension geometry. It will probably be one of the best sportcar came out of Japan, regardless how unreliable has the FA24D been (mine has been super duper reliable)

I do love how the rear is lively, but it can be stable when you need it to. The rear follows the front's motion really well.

Don't shit on the strut...911's, M3's and MANY other cars that are way more expensive and track oriented than our cars, have them as well.

Long and short, the boxer engine is too wide to be able to use a double wishbone setup. We can make the cars handle, they just have a different setup compared to double wishbone.

Reactions: 1

ibar

· #15 · 15 d ago

latapx said:
Don't shit on the strut...911's, M3's and MANY other cars that are way more expensive and track oriented than our cars, have them as well.

Long and short, the boxer engine is too wide to be able to use a double wishbone setup. We can make the cars handle, they just have a different setup compared to double wishbone.

exactly this. The above comments are true in stock form. However, once you are modding the behavior is going be setup dependent.

I have both CR and GR and equal mods I am sure the GR would be a little faster almost every where.

ruturaj1989

· #16 · 13 d ago

BRZerker said:
double camber bolt BRZ

Are you on stock tires and suspension? How much camber do you have? I installed 2 bolts yesterday and doing alignment next week. The tires are super close to suspension, hardly a finger fits in there and I have been worried about rub.

BRZerker

Discussion Starter · #17 · 13 d ago

ruturaj1989 said:
Are you on stock tires and suspension? How much camber do you have? I installed 2 bolts yesterday and doing alignment next week. The tires are super close to suspension, hardly a finger fits in there and I have been worried about rub.

You should be able to get between -2.2 to -2.6 degrees camber with a set of spc 81305 bolts in the lower holes and moving the oem bottom bolt to the top hole. I’m surprised you can fit a finger in there though, makes me think you’ve got a little less than that. At least you shouldn’t rub with that much clearance.

ruturaj1989

· #18 · 13 d ago

BRZerker said:
You should be able to get between -2.2 to -2.6 degrees camber with a set of spc 81305 bolts in the lower holes and moving the oem bottom bolt to the top hole. I’m surprised you can fit a finger in there though, makes me think you’ve got a little less than that. At least you shouldn’t rub with that much clearance.

It's hard to put finger in there, I think the camber with 2 camber bolts should be about same to camber you achieved. The camber is visually apparent, but I would know values better next week after alignment. It's not rubbing, I would say the distance is like 5-7mm.

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