[vincentyang246]

I had the same experience as you on my first track day with stock everything except RS4 tires. Brake fade would start around lap 2. Zero brake feel by lap three.

I “upgraded” to race fluid, SS brake lines, and Carbotech XP-10 pads front and rear. Went back to the same track, again all stock except RS4 tires. Brake fade would start around lap 5. I’d do a cool down lap and be able to go again for a lap or two.

Not a good experience. Seems others fare better than me, though. I used to do 10+ laps in a row in my Miata at that same track without brake issues at all with $75 StopTech brake pads and race fluid on the stock brakes. I had no idea what brake fade was.

I just upgraded to the AP Racing Sprint BBK with Fedoro DS1.11 pads. Going back to the track this weekend. Wish me luck!

I'd wish I could go with ap racing BBK. Price is a bit steep for me atm. I wonder if kns t3 4000 series two-piece rotors can solve this issue without going BBK.

My personal experience is that I boiled my fluid over having actual brake fade.

Note, carbotech xp10 can handle 1600F. I dont know if we can get that much heat into the pads with 5 laps. But I feel like if the rotors can vent out the heat better, it could worth a try without dropping 3k into the brakes. But ap racing BBK is true and tried. So you shouldn't have any problems.

 

[latapx]

@Kulebrero you mentioned "race fluid"...what are you actually using? if you did not CCOMPLETELY flush out the old fluid then you just have some good stuff in the reservoir and crap in the lines and calipers. If you didn't pump 2 bottles of fluid through the system, you probably didn't flush it out enough.

For those who have track experience, keep doing what you are doing if it works for you.

For those who don't have track experience, please do no go on track without upgrading pads and fluid at a minimum. You are endangering yourself and those around you. You could experience brake fade (where your pads are beyond their operating range and you can't stop) or you may boil your fluid (where your brake pedal drops). There are many recommendations on what to use and depending on who you ask is the answer you will get. Here are a few guidelines.

The brake fluid must have a dry boiling point of 600F or higher. This is typically a DOT4 fluid and our cars come with DOT3. Flat out, the OEM fluid is NOT up to the task of driving on the track. Get rid of it.

Brake pads. First off, change all 4 corners. If you only do the front you will end up with a way forward brake bias which will tend to lock up the fronts and over work the fronts. Buy both front and rear pads. "Sport" pads like a Hawk HPS is not enough (in my opinion). I wasn't happy with the way HPS pads worked on an autocross. Never used them on track. A "track/autocross" pad like a Hawk HP+ (or similar performing pad from other companies) is a good compromise that can be used on the street and on the track. These were my daily driver pads when my daily driver was my autocross and track car as well. Never experienced an issue outside of dirty wheels and squeaky brakes. You have to take the good with the bad. Considering I haven't been on track in over 10 years...this is what I'm starting off with. As I knock off the rust, i know I'll get quicker and start pushing harder and the HP+ won't be enough for the track. At that time I'll likely go back to Cobalt Friction who I used when I owned a track only car. That step is far off in the distance so I'm not worried about it yet.

In summary:

1. Get rid of OEM fluid
2. Upgrade pads
3. Drive the thing and get a feel for it
4. Once you get faster, continue to upgrade pads (from street/track to a track only pad)
5. Upgrade to BBK if and only when pure track pads aren't cutting it...or if you just want to have it.

 

[latapx]

I forgot to mention. Brake pads and rotors are a consumable. We are used to driving 30 or 40 thousand miles on a set of brake pads, but with the temperatures seen at the track, this will never happen. All out race pads will likely only last 4 or 5 race weekends depending on the vehicle and the rotors will experience wear and fatigue as well. This is one of those things that you have to be ready for when you venture out onto the track.

By the way...your wheels (and a bunch of other things) are wear items too!