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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see a lot of people here talking about how the 86 might have more differences in regards to exterior, interior, and even performance. I am a believer that the GR86 will have the same amount of differences OR LESS compared to how the 1st gen 86 was to the 1st gen brz.
Toyota has proven that they do not mind using other automakers athletics and parts in their cars. We first saw this in the Yaris sedan. The Yaris Sedan was built with Mazda and it looked like a Mazda 2 in the exterior, and its interior was basically a direct clone of the Mazda 2. Then we saw the same situation in the Supra, the interior barrows a lot of BMW parts and design. IMO, the only reason why the exterior of the supra looks different then the bmw Z4 is because the Z4 is a comfortable and a 2 seater. If the z4 was not a hardtop, and had back seats, the supra would have copied some looks of the z4 as thats what toyota always does when collaborating with another automaker.
So now we talk about the 86 and BRZ. I will keep it short, the GR86 will be a damn clone as the BRZ in more ways then we want it (basically everything but the front bumper)
I honestly find it amusing how originally this car was supposed to be a toyota in heart (ae86, initial d fans rise up!) and represent what toyota sports cars are all about. Cheap, not the fastest or most powerful, but hella fun to drive and become the best driver you can be. But throughout the years, Subaru has robbed this car from Toyota and engraved their name in the this car. The car has more subaru parts in it inside and out, and Subaru seems to show this car off more in their social media and marketing. Toyota has totally always underrepresented the 86 predisposing it to becoming, the forgotten toyota sports car (for the general population). I mean, just ask yourself, more people know and identify this car as the brz, not the 86.
 

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Well I cannot agree or disagree with you. I always thought Toyota sold more 86's than Subaru sold the BRZ's. From my perspective I can only speak about the new car. The mechanical's engine and chassis wise come from Subaru. Exterior and interior styling clearly come from Toyota. Again I can't comment much on the original as I'm not 100% certain. However styling wise there are a lot of Japanese/Toyota cues from the side profile including the overall shape. Clearly there is Lexus RF styling cues. It is the front and rear where the influence from other car makers come in. I do think the 86 rear end will not be a carbon carbon copy of the BRZ's. The shape will be the same. The rear deck spoiler will be the same. I think(my opinion) where it will diverge may be in the tail lights. That drive by video recently still left it hard to tell. The front end is where there is an obvious clearer difference with the grill and the front intakes on either end. Can't yet tell about the headlights. On the drive by car the C pillar were covered. However it seemed like you could almost make out more rounded C pillar window. However I'm thinking that is to there to mislead people. But the 2 cars are going to be very similar. At the projected price point there is very limited room to make much changes. I think there will probably be different interior plastics and surfaces in the 86 but that would be about it. I think its really a matter of whether you like the Toyota front grill or the Subaru front Grill. As before I assume the shock tuning will be slightly different for both cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Well I cannot agree or disagree with you. I always thought Toyota sold more 86's than Subaru sold the BRZ's. From my perspective I can only speak about the new car. The mechanical's engine and chassis wise come from Subaru. Exterior and interior styling clearly come from Toyota. Again I can't comment much on the original as I'm not 100% certain. However styling wise there are a lot of Japanese/Toyota cues from the side profile including the overall shape. Clearly there is Lexus RF styling cues. It is the front and rear where the influence from other car makers come in. I do think the 86 rear end will not be a carbon carbon copy of the BRZ's. The shape will be the same. The rear deck spoiler will be the same. I think(my opinion) where it will diverge may be in the tail lights. That drive by video recently still left it hard to tell. The front end is where there is an obvious clearer difference with the grill and the front intakes on either end. Can't yet tell about the headlights. On the drive by car the C pillar were covered. However it seemed like you could almost make out more rounded C pillar window. However I'm thinking that is to there to mislead people. But the 2 cars are going to be very similar. At the projected price point there is very limited room to make much changes. I think there will probably be different interior plastics and surfaces in the 86 but that would be about it. I think its really a matter of whether you like the Toyota front grill or the Subaru front Grill. As before I assume the shock tuning will be slightly different for both cars.
Good points, and yes, toyota has always sold more 86's the brz, probably by twice as much. And your totally right about the exterior in the 1st gen being designed by toyota, as it was inspired by the 2000gt.
 

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Good points, and yes, toyota has always sold more 86's the brz, probably by twice as much. And your totally right about the exterior in the 1st gen being designed by toyota, as it was inspired by the 2000gt.
I believe Toyota and Subaru are sticking to the formula that made the 1st generation successful. More of the same aside from badging and minor exterior and interior designs. Though I wonder if Toyota’s version will be named GR 86, what will GR’s involvement be to set it apart from the BRZ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I believe Toyota and Subaru are sticking to the formula that made the 1st generation successful. More of the same aside from badging and minor exterior and interior designs. Though I wonder if Toyota’s version will be named GR 86, what will GR’s involvement be to set it apart from the BRZ?
It will get the GR name, but it won't mean it will get anything special that the BRZ does not already have IMO. All just marketing for this car.
 

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I think that the GR connection is simply marketing and a few minor cosmetics to link the car to the GR Yaris. The wheels are one example. One area to separate the BRZ to the 86 should at least be different wheels.Perhaps the BRZ could have wheels more similar to the WRX for example.
 

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I don't know if everyone was suggesting it would be very different? GR will be the new brand for all of Toyotas performance cars, they announced that when they announced the Supra.

Its a unique platform, designed by both companies, built buy Subaru but with parts supplied by both.

The two twin cars shared every part to keep costs down and maximise the value in what is a hard low volume segment.

They were and will always be essentially identical (apart from a bumper), with some slight changes in price, fit and finish, and accessories they have under different spec levels offerings.

One other thing about how you think its all Subaru now. Nothing has changed - Toyota controls the destiny of the 86/BRZ, not Subaru. Toyota owns 20% of Subaru in fact. This affordable, front engine, rear wheel drive car exists because Toyota want it to exists, and THAT is where the heart is.

And it has stayed true to its initial-D, AE86 roots if you want to refer to that, no doubt I'm sure there are plenty of Subaru executives that would love to throw a turbo in there!
 

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What you say is all true. But chassis and most mechanical parts( engine, suspension, platform) come from Subaru on the BRZ. The exterior styling and interior styling appears to be Toyota. Given that Subaru have had long term experience and platforms for the WRX and Impreza if the plan is to use the 2.4 flat 4 cylinder for this new hatchback AWD it seems logical that it would be a modified platform from the new upcoming WRX. Much like the BRZ/86 Toyota will be in charge of styling(my opinion)and will differentiate between the 2 brands. So looks style wise It would again seem logical to have some styling cues from the WRX on the Subaru side and Yaris styling cues on the Toyota side.
 

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What you say is all true. But chassis and most mechanical parts( engine, suspension, platform) come from Subaru on the BRZ. The exterior styling and interior styling appears to be Toyota. Given that Subaru have had long term experience and platforms for the WRX and Impreza if the plan is to use the 2.4 flat 4 cylinder for this new hatchback AWD it seems logical that it would be a modified platform from the new upcoming WRX. Much like the BRZ/86 Toyota will be in charge of styling(my opinion)and will differentiate between the 2 brands. So looks style wise It would again seem logical to have some styling cues from the WRX on the Subaru side and Yaris styling cues on the Toyota side.
Oh sure the FA platform is Subaru's, BUT the FA20D and the FA24D are custom designs for this car (or twin cars). Remember, while absolutely filled with Subaru engineers, the Chief Engineer was Tada-san. The internals look quite a bit different from the FA20F and I assume the FA24F. Its certainly not the same engine as people like to make out, but they do share a lot in common of course. If look at opened engines side by side, the internal layout is very different, and not just space for DS-4 either. It is truly designed around NA.

Take a trip down memory lane and read the development process! From page 4 onwards of the brochure. So good to read.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Oh sure the FA platform is Subaru's, BUT the FA20D and the FA24D are custom designs for this car (or twin cars). Remember, while absolutely filled with Subaru engineers, the Chief Engineer was Tada-san. The internals look quite a bit different from the FA20F and I assume the FA24F. Its certainly not the same engine as people like to make out, but they do share a lot in common of course. If look at opened engines side by side, the internal layout is very different, and not just space for DS-4 either. It is truly designed around NA.

Take a trip down memory lane and read the development process! From page 4 onwards of the brochure. So good to read.
yes it is a fact that this car is a thing because of toyota, but even though this is supposed to be the successor of the ae86, it seems that at this point, toyota is not that involved. I totally believe that the cars will look exactly the same besides the front bumper. I am hoping toyota does something different under the hood for the european market as well, that way they have something. Other then that, they will be twining strong as they always have.
 

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yes it is a fact that this car is a thing because of toyota, but even though this is supposed to be the successor of the ae86, it seems that at this point, toyota is not that involved. I totally believe that the cars will look exactly the same besides the front bumper. I am hoping toyota does something different under the hood for the european market as well, that way they have something. Other then that, they will be twining strong as they always have.
I don't think there is anything more or less Subaru (although open to you if you can point that out to me). Toyota are taking longer on announcing it, according to rumours its because they want a big event with people driving the car (probably why subaru wasn't allowing that).
 

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I see a lot of people here talking about how the 86 might have more differences in regards to exterior, interior, and even performance. I am a believer that the GR86 will have the same amount of differences OR LESS compared to how the 1st gen 86 was to the 1st gen brz.
Toyota has proven that they do not mind using other automakers athletics and parts in their cars. We first saw this in the Yaris sedan. The Yaris Sedan was built with Mazda and it looked like a Mazda 2 in the exterior, and its interior was basically a direct clone of the Mazda 2. Then we saw the same situation in the Supra, the interior barrows a lot of BMW parts and design. IMO, the only reason why the exterior of the supra looks different then the bmw Z4 is because the Z4 is a comfortable and a 2 seater. If the z4 was not a hardtop, and had back seats, the supra would have copied some looks of the z4 as thats what toyota always does when collaborating with another automaker.
So now we talk about the 86 and BRZ. I will keep it short, the GR86 will be a damn clone as the BRZ in more ways then we want it (basically everything but the front bumper)
I honestly find it amusing how originally this car was supposed to be a toyota in heart (ae86, initial d fans rise up!) and represent what toyota sports cars are all about. Cheap, not the fastest or most powerful, but hella fun to drive and become the best driver you can be. But throughout the years, Subaru has robbed this car from Toyota and engraved their name in the this car. The car has more subaru parts in it inside and out, and Subaru seems to show this car off more in their social media and marketing. Toyota has totally always underrepresented the 86 predisposing it to becoming, the forgotten toyota sports car (for the general population). I mean, just ask yourself, more people know and identify this car as the brz, not the 86.
You definitely are making an interesting observation. Additionally, it is Subaru that beat Toyota to the punch with the reveal and has stolen the spotlight. Perhaps as you stated Toyota is really not that interested in this car since the Supra bros are garnering wY more attention.
 

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You definitely are making an interesting observation. Additionally, it is Subaru that beat Toyota to the punch with the reveal and has stolen the spotlight. Perhaps as you stated Toyota is really not that interested in this car since the Supra bros are garnering wY more attention.
According to a report, they were going to reveal it at the Tokyo show (like they did in 2011 with the original) that got cancelled due to a huge covid outbreak in japan. The report also says they are not interested in doing an online reveal now, and they want will prefer skip straight to the bigger reveal with lots of journalists hands on.

And yes, I'm sure Toyota want to take advantage of the delay to keep selling the other cars. One would assume that they are confident in selling many months in advance of the new car no matter when it releases as the journalists will go all googly eyed if they have truly given it 'enough' power this time (and I think they may have), particularly down low, AND somehow made it an even better steering and balanced car without making the ride harsher and having now actual wheel grip.
 

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Remember Toyota owns 20% of Subaru(I think). .So while Toyota is a competitor with the 86 its in Toyota's interest for the BRZ to succeed and why it is out first. So from a marketing standpoint they may be trying to be careful. Further if Toyota and Subaru go in together on the Hatchback version of the WRX again Toyota has to carefully consider the impact on the WRX. Which is why the mention of the Celica's name now would make sense for the AWD hatchback. I am sure there is a concern about potential cannibalization of product lines. Its not as critical for a small volume sports car like the BRZ/86. However when you are talking about the WRX that is a mainstay of Subaru's product line. It will be interesting how Toyota differentiates its version of the hatchback. Will they call it the GR Celica AWD? Will it look significantly different to the Subaru version? Will Subaru call it the WRX or a different name?
 

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You definitely are making sense. I wish they would go back to the "AllTrac" name for the celica.
 

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And there is of course an historical context for the Celica Alltrack. Toyota made that car for a limited period of time. If it were me Toyota should produce a product that is a more clear separation from Subaru. Maybe that could be in terms of different power outputs, chassis tuning, obviously styling.
Obviously now it has to be a 4dr. Essentially the Toyota 86 has replaced the 2dr Celica Sport Coupe
when it came out 8 years ago. This Celica could be clear competition to Honda Civic Sport hatchback or SI etc. That would make sense in the product range. You could have a N/A 2.4 in detuned form to take on the Civic/SI. Perhaps on the Subaru side it could be turbocharged to offer
a WRX hatchback that has been sorely missed in the Subaru lineup by so many.
 
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