[Singleminded]

I want the car to hunker down and accelerate out of the corner, not get tail-happy and plunge me over an embankment or into a tree / guardrail / other lane.

You’re so dramatic! The suspensions aren’t THAT different! 😂

The tests from professional drivers that I’ve read suggest the differences are hard to notice except when driven back to back, and some have observed that the BRZ is less predictable and controllable than the 86 when it does break loose. Also, from what I’ve read, tests have tended to show faster 0-60 and lap times for the 86.

To be clear, I don’t think the above, even if true, is enough reason to pick the 86 over the BRZ. The cars are too similar. I was just noting that when it comes to the differences between the two cars, I lean toward the 86 generally and most particularly with respect to the looks. It’s just a personal opinion, not right or wrong, but I’ll always prefer the front grill and silver stripes / stitching of the seats in the 86. I have yet to have a problem with my grill getting gunked up and being hard to clean, but if it does I wouldn’t be swayed in the slightest.

All that said, and as I’ve mentioned elsewhere on the forum, I put deposits on both twins and would have happily taken the BRZ had it been available first. I’d be thrilled with either one, recognizing there’d always be something about the other I’d prefer. Which in my case as an 86 owner is just the Subaru badge lol!

 

[Ritter]

You’re so dramatic! The suspensions aren’t THAT different! 😂

The tests from professional drivers that I’ve read suggest the differences are hard to notice except when driven back to back, and some have observed that the BRZ is less predictable and controllable than the 86 when it does break loose. Also, from what I’ve read, tests have tended to show faster 0-60 and lap times for the 86.

I think this reviewer's impressions are a pretty good guide because he drove both transmissions in both cars back to back on track and filmed everything.

Here he's in the BRZ MT after driving GR86 AT & MT. He's talking a lot about the BRZ being "stable" "sticky" "slower / gentler rear slide" "BRZ can be controlled with confidence" "constant rear slide" "it's calm" "GR86 starts sliding here, but BRZ is stable" "BRZ slides little by little" "will not fail" "it is stable and can be operated with a margin" "GR86 is more severe when it slides" "BRZ is stable".

Here he says, "the difference is clear when comparing the images inside the car" "GR86 generates yaw in the high speed range" "BRZ is highly stable" "I feel that BRZ is easier to control" "the behavior on the curve is very different". Then he discusses the chassis differences and concludes, "these may be factors of BRZ stability" "the cornering of BRZ was wonderful".

I think he felt like he needed to bring it back to the middle a little, so here is says "on a tight curve, GR86 is easier to change direction and has higher controllability" which I guess means to can walk it out or in whenever you want, "but keeping the slide on longer curves requires finer control". So I guess he's saying if you like sliding, the GR86 would be the choice.

For me, though, I don't want to slide. I want "calm & stable" when I'm in a fast curve on public roads....no "slide control" drama! Here are a couple of corkscrew curves that I regularly zip through:

 

[Singleminded]

I think this reviewer's impressions are a pretty good guide because he drove both transmissions in both cars back to back on track and filmed everything.

Here he's in the BRZ MT after driving GR86 AT & MT. He's talking a lot about the BRZ being "stable" "sticky" "slower / gentler rear slide" "BRZ can be controlled with confidence" "constant rear slide" "it's calm" "GR86 starts sliding here, but BRZ is stable" "BRZ slides little by little" "will not fail" "it is stable and can be operated with a margin" "GR86 is more severe when it slides" "BRZ is stable".

Here he says, "the difference is clear when comparing the images inside the car" "GR86 generates yaw in the high speed range" "BRZ is highly stable" "I feel that BRZ is easier to control" "the behavior on the curve is very different". Then he discusses the chassis differences and concludes, "these may be factors of BRZ stability" "the cornering of BRZ was wonderful".

I think he felt like he needed to bring it back to the middle a little, so here is says "on a tight curve, GR86 is easier to change direction and has higher controllability" which I guess means to can walk it out or in whenever you want, "but keeping the slide on longer curves requires finer control". So I guess he's saying if you like sliding, the GR86 would be the choice.

For me, though, I don't want to slide. I want "calm & stable" when I'm in a fast curve on public roads....no "slide control" drama! Here are a couple of corkscrew curves that I regularly zip through:

Those tests aren’t valid cause the steering wheel is on the wrong side, makes everything backwards 😂

This is just one example of what I was taking about in terms of tests by expert drivers. To me, the fact that not everyone agrees really just proves the larger point that the handling differences are perhaps too small to base a buying decision on. 2022 Toyota GR86 Premium at Lightning Lap 2022

 

[BlitzPig]

Most of my SCCA friends that regularly autocross either of the Twins, have gone to a larger front anti roll bar. Makes the car far more predictable and planted, and has improved their times.

 

[Singleminded]

I think this reviewer's impressions are a pretty good guide because he drove both transmissions in both cars back to back on track and filmed everything.

Here he's in the BRZ MT after driving GR86 AT & MT. He's talking a lot about the BRZ being "stable" "sticky" "slower / gentler rear slide" "BRZ can be controlled with confidence" "constant rear slide" "it's calm" "GR86 starts sliding here, but BRZ is stable" "BRZ slides little by little" "will not fail" "it is stable and can be operated with a margin" "GR86 is more severe when it slides" "BRZ is stable".

Here he says, "the difference is clear when comparing the images inside the car" "GR86 generates yaw in the high speed range" "BRZ is highly stable" "I feel that BRZ is easier to control" "the behavior on the curve is very different". Then he discusses the chassis differences and concludes, "these may be factors of BRZ stability" "the cornering of BRZ was wonderful".

I think he felt like he needed to bring it back to the middle a little, so here is says "on a tight curve, GR86 is easier to change direction and has higher controllability" which I guess means to can walk it out or in whenever you want, "but keeping the slide on longer curves requires finer control". So I guess he's saying if you like sliding, the GR86 would be the choice.

For me, though, I don't want to slide. I want "calm & stable" when I'm in a fast curve on public roads....no "slide control" drama! Here are a couple of corkscrew curves that I regularly zip through:

This debate aside, I gotta say you have some sweet ass curves. I mean…uh…er…Nice road! 😂

 

[Nannou]

Those tests aren’t valid cause the steering wheel is on the wrong side, makes everything backwards 😂

Ummm, I think you mean the correct side

Fun fact: Travelling on the left goes all the way back to the days of horses and knights and all that jazz. You'd ride on left of the path/road, so that if some medieval shit went down, your right hand was always ready to grab your sword and defend to your right.

I guess the States was founded by lefties

 

[Noobtber]

What sway bar did you use?

I have the 19mm perrin front sway bar on the softest setting, 1.5deg of camber and 0.3deg of toe out (don't do toe for street driving). For competitions, I run 31psi front and 28psi rear on RE-71RS in 245/45R17. This gives me a slight understeer bias at AutoX with the ability to oversteer under throttle.

The toe is basically there to enable trail braking.

 

[brzCPA]

Ummm, I think you mean the correct side

Fun fact: Travelling on the left goes all the way back to the days of horses and knights and all that jazz. You'd ride on left of the path/road, so that if some medieval shit went down, your right hand was always ready to grab your sword and defend to your right.

I guess the States was founded by lefties

Best defense I have heard for driving on wrong side of the road.

 

[Dr. Magnanimous]

I haven't driven both but supposedly there's different throttle mapping, the BRZ more linear, 86 more twitchy off the line

Surprisingly, only one person has mentioned one of the real big differences aside from the suspension setup, the engine tune. GR86's engine is more responsive than BRZ, and thus many more car reviewers recommed GR86 over BRZ. Buyers of GR86 know that too and hence the demand which resulted the price increase, I believe. In the video below at 11:33, the difference in engine tuning is discussed.

 

[Tobes]

In the video below at 11:33, the difference in engine tuning is discussed.

Then the reviewer states:
"I don't think you'd notice if you didn't drive them back to back. It's that close" Lol

 

[SkyDog]

Surprisingly, only one person has mentioned one of the real big differences aside from the suspension setup, the engine tune. GR86's engine is more responsive than BRZ, and thus many more car reviewers recommed GR86 over BRZ. Buyers of GR86 know that too and hence the demand which resulted the price increase, I believe.

Throttle mapping ≠ “engine tune”.

Even if they are/were tuned differently, I wouldn’t expect many consumers to know that, much less enough of them to affect demand significantly and drive up pricing.

…and for whatever it’s worth, a number of us prefer a more linear throttle response. 😉

 

[ajm_diga]

Surprisingly, only one person has mentioned one of the real big differences aside from the suspension setup, the engine tune. GR86's engine is more responsive than BRZ, and thus many more car reviewers recommed GR86 over BRZ. Buyers of GR86 know that too and hence the demand which resulted the price increase, I believe. In the video below at 11:33, the difference in engine tuning is discussed.

Don't these guys claim the hp/tq curves have different crossover points between the 2 cars? I'm not an engineer but apparently that's a false claim. I think they equate twitchy off the line to 'race car', not as twitchy to 'car I would not buy'.

 

[Dr. Magnanimous]

Then the reviewer states:
"I don't think you'd notice if you didn't drive them back to back. It's that close" Lol

Yes, I noticed that, and evey car reviewer says that, but but but, there is a subtle difference after all, and if one has to pick, why not pick the one car with livlier response?

 

[TessaSeveride]

Yes, I noticed that, and evey car reviewer says that, but but but, there is a subtle difference after all, and if one has to pick, why not pick the one car with livlier response?

Because the throttle sensitivity isn't even close to being the deciding factor between the two vehicles.

 

[ajm_diga]

Yes, I noticed that, and evey car reviewer says that, but but but, there is a subtle difference after all, and if one has to pick, why not pick the one car with livlier response?

i get it, it's a personal choice, if you like it you like it! go get it! These two guys are already fairly annoying, I'm a car nerd so I used to watch them but this review was just too much, can't take them seriously. The torque curve business, then saying the differences are almost impossible to tell but at the same time saying they wouldn't buy one or the other because of said differences, lol. There's much better out there, the Car and Driver suspension differences is pretty good, I'd start there.

 

[Tobes]

Yes, I noticed that, and evey car reviewer says that, but but but, there is a subtle difference after all, and if one has to pick, why not pick the one car with livlier response?

I test drove both cars on the same day. My local Subaru dealer only had an AT BRZ and the Toyota dealer only had the MT GR86.
I liked both cars.
I definitely noticed the throttle response of the MT GR86, though I was thinking at least some of that difference was the shorter gearing of the MT.
What stood out the most for me was the ride difference. The GR86 was a lot more busy over bumpy/uneven surfaces while the BRZ was significantly more supple riding.
So I decided a MT BRZ would be best suited for my preferences and the roads around my area. YMMV.
Hopefully my BRZ is only a month or so away.

 

[Devon]

I test drove both cars on the same day. My local Subaru dealer only had an AT BRZ and the Toyota dealer only had the MT GR86.
I liked both cars....

Thanks a lot for this post. Around here getting test drives in either is near impossible, let alone back to back. As Toronto roads can be nasty, knowing how both ride is a key factor in choosing between them.

 

[SkyDog]

…and if one has to pick, why not pick the one car with livlier response?

The throttle mapping difference, at least as I’ve seen it described, is that the GR86 opens the throttle more with less pedal input. So if you push the pedal 1/4 of the way down in both cars, the GR86 is giving the engine more fuel.

If that’s true… A touchier gas pedal would mean the GR86 could feel zippier off the line. On the other hand, more linear response would give finer control of the throttle over the whole pedal throw.

 

[las27563481]

The throttle mapping difference, at least as I’ve seen it described, is that the GR86 opens the throttle more with less pedal input. So if you push the pedal 1/4 of the way down in both cars, the GR86 is giving the engine more fuel.

If that’s true… A touchier gas pedal would mean the GR86 could feel zippier off the line. On the other hand, more linear response would give finer control of the throttle over the whole pedal throw.

Yes and I would assume less pedal travel overall yielding less resolution, but edgier to the touch. The same numbers of points, just within a smaller throw of pedal movement. Say 0 is pedal all the way up and 1023 is on the floor. If the BRZ has a longer pedal throw, then the 1024 points of resolution would be spread out over a less dense but longer linear pattern. This would make the BRZ easier to control on the throttle than the GR86 by the driver. The more points over a given length, the less granular the response would be and more noticeable if many less points were used for the sampling the range. Sorry A-D engineer here.

 

[BlitzPig]

This is very much like comparing Mid-Fi audio equipment to genuine bleeding edge true High Fidelity stuff.

The volume pots on cheap and mid fi amps are not linear in response, but will give most of the available output in the first half of the knob's travel, whereas most serious high end audio has a linear volume control.

It's a cheap trick to make the uninformed think their overdriven transistor amp is more powerful than it really is. The US muscle car makers back in the day did the same thing with the carburetor linkages. GM in particular was guilty of this. It's also why Pontiac put those terrible, hard as rock, Tiger Paw bias ply tires on the early GTOs. They were easier to spin, thus giving the false impression that the "Goat" was actually more powerful than it was.