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Argument for thicker oils

5971 Views 95 Replies 27 Participants Last post by s2mikey, 2 mo ago

Mcgiiver

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

Savage Geese has a video on YT about the perils of direct injection.

He says the problems that arise are deposits building up on the backside of intake valves, in part due to evaporated motor oil fumes and blowby products, not being washed off by port injection. At about 15:50 in the video he starts discussing why its not good to run the thin oils due to their high evaporation rate. He suggests that 0w-16,0w20, 0w-30 are best replaced by 5w-xx oils because they generally are less evaporative.

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81 - 96 of 96 Posts

formerMiata

· #81 · 2 mo ago

TRU-BOOST said:
Except that isnt actually correct. Many people dont understand oil viscocity and most internet info is explained by people who also dont understand it. Not every oil that starts with a 0 will flow the same when cold. The 1st number does not directly mean "cold". A 0w20 will flow mich better at cold temps than a 0w30 or 0w40. Pick the oil brand of your choice and look at the actual specs on their website. All manufacturers have this info accessible. You will see that if you compare their 0w20, 0w30, and 0w40 oils their viscocity spec for 40c will get higher and higher. There are a lot of chemical factors at play here that I wont geek out over, but the mass understanding of how oil ratings work is wrong. What I can tell you with absolute certainty is that the farther apart you go with the 2 numbers in an oil rating like 0w40 the worse quality the oil becomes. It is very dependant on additives and modifiers to cover such wide viscosity ranges and those break down long before the base oil does. What you end up with is oil that is easily diluted, vaporizes early and does not lubricate well. Want to know why VW\Audi engines are notorious for carbon build up problems that everyone likes to blame on direct injection....? Its their crappy 0w40 oil combined with far too long oil change intervals.

I live in Denver, where there are massive temperature swings all year. It snows as late as May, but the track season runs almost all year and it’s totally possible to have a 80 degree track day in March.

What’s your thoughts on 5w-30 vs 0w-30 oil for track use?

latapx

· #82 · 2 mo ago

vincentyang246 said:
Idk if you guys missed the point the video is about 22 wrx 😅. Not brz/86, pretty sure fa24dit sees more heat than fa24d. Makes sense if he wants to run 5w40 if he is at somewhere the spring is picking back up.

The turbo will heat up the oil more...BUT the FA24DIT only spins to 6k or so, not 7400RPM like our motors. That high RPM will tend to heat up the oil more under hard use. It may be a toss up...extra heat from turbo vs extra heat from higher revs.

Mario0617

· #83 · 2 mo ago

formerMiata said:
I live in Denver, where there are massive temperature swings all year. It snows as late as May, but the track season runs almost all year and it’s totally possible to have a 80 degree track day in March.

What’s your thoughts on 5w-30 vs 0w-30 oil for track use?

Not TB, but for track use run 5w-30. Unless you’re tracking it in the middle of a blizzard. There’s no benefit to the 0w and it’s just an unnecessary compromise.

Reactions: 2

formerMiata

· #84 · 2 mo ago

Mario0617 said:
Not TB, but for track use run 5w-30. Unless you’re tracking it in the middle of a blizzard. There’s no benefit to the 0w and it’s just an unnecessary compromise.

My point is that it’s not a dedicated track car.

It could do a track day in 75f weather one day and two weeks later be driving through the snow when it is 0f outside.

TRU-BOOST

· #85 · 2 mo ago

formerMiata said:
I live in Denver, where there are massive temperature swings all year. It snows as late as May, but the track season runs almost all year and it’s totally possible to have a 80 degree track day in March.

What’s your thoughts on 5w-30 vs 0w-30 oil for track use?

5w30 for sure. It will still be comfortable in that climate. I know enthusiasts dont want to hear it, but I still support different oil for street and track use. You will get smoother startups with better protection on thinner stuff along with a significant increase in MPG. The heavier stuff on track will give you that high temp\rpm protection you are after. You dont even have to change the filter or get under the car. Extract the track oil out of top after the event and pour in a $30 jug of good 5w20 and be done. You will save the $30 back in fuel savings and not have to worry how well that track used oil is holding up for another 3,4,5k miles. But for those who just want 1 oil at all times and do actual heavy track use I think 5w30 would be the go to. Street abuse, autocross, short track races, 5w20.
You can also get creative and mix them. No harm in that.

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Mario0617

· #86 · 2 mo ago

TRU-BOOST said:
It’s not an air cooled Harley.

laughs in SAE 50 straight

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formerMiata

· #87 · 2 mo ago

TRU-BOOST said:
5w30 for sure. It will still be comfortable in that climate. I know enthusiasts dont want to hear it, but I still support different oil for street and track use. You will get smoother startups with better protection on thinner stuff along with a significant increase in MPG. The heavier stuff on track will give you that high temp\rpm protection you are after. You dont even have to change the filter or get under the car. Extract the track oil out of top after the event and pour in a $30 jug of good 5w20 and be done. You will save the $30 back in fuel savings and not have to worry how well that track used oil is holding up for another 3,4,5k miles. But for those who just want 1 oil at all times and do actual heavy track use I think 5w30 would be the go to. Street abuse, autocross, short track races, 5w20.
You can also get creative and mix them. No harm in that.

Yeah I’m definitely not changing oil for track days, realistically speaking. I’m just too dang lazy.

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s2mikey

· #88 · 2 mo ago

I returned the 5w30 and got 5w20 instead. That’ll work for my use case. I’m also swapping out the trans and gear oils when the car comes out of hibernation which should be very soon! Going all Redline fluids for those.

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Ritter

· #89 · 2 mo ago

I was listening to the MotorWeek podcast and they said the Ford F-150 Raptor R takes over 11 quarts of 5W-50.

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formulaBRZ

· #90 · 2 mo ago

s2mikey said:
I returned the 5w30 and got 5w20 instead. That’ll work for my use case. I’m also swapping out the trans and gear oils when the car comes out of hibernation which should be very soon! Going all Redline fluids for those.

Swapped my diff/trans fluid to Red Line about 2000mi ago and couldn't be happier. Wasn't able to get Motul so Red Line was my backup. My mechanic told me the factory diff fluid looked pretty much sapped at 7000mi. The new transmission oil definitely makes the shifts feel smoother once everything's warmed up, but good luck getting into 1st gear unless you're at a dead stop

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Ritter

· #91 · 2 mo ago

Ritter said:
I was listening to the MotorWeek podcast and they said the Ford F-150 Raptor R takes over 11 quarts of 5W-50.

F-150 Raptor R Technical Specifications

Reactions: 1

Duchess

· #92 · 2 mo ago

A Lamborghini Espada I considered buying ($22k for a nice one! They weren't worth anything for decades) took 14.3l of oil. That's almost 3.8 GALLONS! That and simple 3k miles servicing included adjusting the valves with shims and I didn't pull the trigger.

Reactions: 3

s2mikey

· #93 · 2 mo ago

formulaBRZ said:
Swapped my diff/trans fluid to Red Line about 2000mi ago and couldn't be happier. Wasn't able to get Motul so Red Line was my backup. My mechanic told me the factory diff fluid looked pretty much sapped at 7000mi. The new transmission oil definitely makes the shifts feel smoother once everything's warmed up, but good luck getting into 1st gear unless you're at a dead stop

Nothing whatsoever wrong with Redline. That was my first choice. Always had great luck with their fluids so no need to change. Im sure Motul is great too. All good.

.

Duly noted about the first gear issue. Thats fine. I barely ever used 1st gear anyways.

Did you use the MT-LV 70w-75w for the tranny & the 75w85 for the diff? Thats what I picked out.

Duchess said:
A Lamborghini Espada I considered buying ($22k for a nice one! They weren't worth anything for decades) took 14.3l of oil. That's almost 3.8 GALLONS! That and simple 3k miles servicing included adjusting the valves with shims and I didn't pull the trigger.

Nice! I was always a big fan(and still am/) of some of those 70's/80s exotics. Wish I had pulled the trigger years ago on a 1978 308GTB. Ugh. Cars are worth a fortune now and still look better than 99% of whats on the road, IMO.

Wizard of Oz

· #94 · 2 mo ago

Took my BRZ in for its first of the 4 free oil change at dealership. Told Srv Manager I would prefer 5/30 put back in it if possible and he replied. Don’t blame ya…No problem. And even showed on paperwork Valvoline 5w/30 Full Synthetic. Owners Request. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Reactions: 5

Ritter

· #95 · 2 mo ago

Wizard of Oz said:
Took my BRZ in for its first of the 4 free oil change at dealership. Told Srv Manager I would prefer 5/30 put back in it if possible and he replied. Don’t blame ya…No problem. And even showed on paperwork Valvoline 5w/30 Full Synthetic. Owners Request. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Nice! You're not only The Wizard of Oz, you're The Dealer Whisperer!

Reactions: 4

s2mikey

· #96 · 2 mo ago

Wizard of Oz said:
Took my BRZ in for its first of the 4 free oil change at dealership. Told Srv Manager I would prefer 5/30 put back in it if possible and he replied. Don’t blame ya…No problem. And even showed on paperwork Valvoline 5w/30 Full Synthetic. Owners Request. 🤷🏼‍♂️

Ritter said:
Nice! You're not only The Wizard of Oz, you're The Dealer Whisperer!

Great to hear - its like: Some dealers really do listen and try to accomodate. My local Subie dealer was great abouit order and purchase but I still prefer my local sports car shop to do whatever work they can. I would go to my dealer though for service if need be.

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