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Nobody was struggling to drift the BRZ in Japan though. I think the BRZs setup is probably ideal for 90% of people. On YouTube people are talking like they’ll be drifting everyday, every turn, so the 86 suits their drive style. Lol.
You are correct. It’s also worth noting that Tsuchiya the drift king himself actually likes the BRZ more due to the handling characteristics. He stated it suits his driving style more, despite being half a second quicker in the GR86 around the track.

Its clear in the hands of a good driver, the GR86 is faster, but only to those who can take advantage of the loose tail and really drive it to the limit. But I feel the majority may not and that the BRZ would be more suited.

My M3 is very oversteery on track so my decision to go with the BRZ will be a refreshing change.
 

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You are correct. It’s also worth noting that Tsuchiya the drift king himself actually likes the BRZ more due to the handling characteristics. He stated it suits his driving style more, despite being half a second quicker in the GR86 around the track.

Its clear in the hands of a good driver, the GR86 is faster, but only to those who can take advantage of the loose tail and really drive it to the limit. But I feel the majority may not and that the BRZ would be more suited.

My M3 is very oversteery on track so my decision to go with the BRZ will be a refreshing change.
You can ask him questions on YouTube and he actually gets back to you the best he can in English. You are right though, he kinda hinted at it in the comments to a subscriber. As far as the GR86 being quicker that’s questionable. Would definitely depend on the driver but most of the time a more stable car can help you around the track better..
 

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Its good to remember also that both Toyota and Subaru make a fully adjustable suspension kit for both of these cars.

Set them up how you like if your going to track them and still stay factory.
 

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I just wonder why is the BRZ slightly more fuel-efficient than the GR 86.

The BRZ is now rated at 25/21/30 (combined/city/highway) in miles per gallon for the automatic version, while the manual version is rated at 22/20/27 mpg.

In comparison, the GR 86 is now rated at 24/20/30 (combined/city/highway) in miles per gallon for the automatic version, while the manual version is rated at 21/19/26 mpg.
 

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Well-both companies said that did some slight engine tuning differences with each other. If the gearing is the same you would think the only other difference would be the front end of each car.
 

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Jalopnik has a new article out that basically says that aside from cosmetic differences the driving experience is the same.


Part of me wants to say that the GR 86 is a little more tail-happy, but it’s not like I couldn’t feel the BRZ slide under me coming out of Turns 1-3 at Lime Rock, or on the wicked-fun autocross circuit in the infield. I only had the opportunity to drive the BRZ in Limited trim, which features upgraded Michelin Pilot Sport 4 rubber, just like the top version of the GR 86. Even despite the extra grip, the punchy low-end torque of the new 2.4 still had my coupe scurrying like a dog on a linoleum floor while in second gear during the autocross. This inevitably resulted in spins, especially as I got more comfortable with the car and liberal with the use of my right foot.

If I drove the BRZ and GR 86 literally back to back, would the behavioral discrepancies have stood out more? Probably. But the fact I had a stupid fun time with both of the new Toyobaru twins and for very similar reasons essentially tells me that if you want one of these cars, it doesn’t matter which you choose. Prioritize the one associated with the logo or front bumper you like more; if you can’t get it, go across the street to the rival dealer and order one of those instead.
 

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Jalopnik has a new article out that basically says that aside from cosmetic differences the driving experience is the same.


Part of me wants to say that the GR 86 is a little more tail-happy, but it’s not like I couldn’t feel the BRZ slide under me coming out of Turns 1-3 at Lime Rock, or on the wicked-fun autocross circuit in the infield. I only had the opportunity to drive the BRZ in Limited trim, which features upgraded Michelin Pilot Sport 4 rubber, just like the top version of the GR 86. Even despite the extra grip, the punchy low-end torque of the new 2.4 still had my coupe scurrying like a dog on a linoleum floor while in second gear during the autocross. This inevitably resulted in spins, especially as I got more comfortable with the car and liberal with the use of my right foot.

If I drove the BRZ and GR 86 literally back to back, would the behavioral discrepancies have stood out more? Probably. But the fact I had a stupid fun time with both of the new Toyobaru twins and for very similar reasons essentially tells me that if you want one of these cars, it doesn’t matter which you choose. Prioritize the one associated with the logo or front bumper you like more; if you can’t get it, go across the street to the rival dealer and order one of those instead.
It all comes down to which front end makes you think you’re driving better lmao
 

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Yes-Its all about the cosmetics of the front end. In day to day driving your not going to notice a difference. If your not going to track this car as I just said, it's all about the front end. Nothing more. What Toyota and Subaru tell you are for marketing purposes so you will buy one over the other.
 

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To me the second Gen is a definite upgrade in styling. It is more sophisticated and less boy racer. I think the second gen GR86 has that more boy racer look about it where the the BRZ, especially in metallic colors reminds me more mature, conservative, more like Porsche. We are of course talking primarily about the front ends of these cars. The rear extended spoiler of the GR86 reminds me more of the Supra. I think it suits the GR86 where it would not suit the BRZ. Just a thought. I think the BRZ in this version 2 may suit an older audience.
 

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To me the second Gen is a definite upgrade in styling. It is more sophisticated and less boy racer. I think the second gen GR86 has that more boy racer look about it where the the BRZ, especially in metallic colors reminds me more mature, conservative, more like Porsche. We are of course talking primarily about the front ends of these cars. The rear extended spoiler of the GR86 reminds me more of the Supra. I think it suits the GR86 where it would not suit the BRZ. Just a thought. I think the BRZ in this version 2 may suit an older audience.
I think more of the marketing pushes the 86 that way, which isn’t a bad thing. I agree though. The BRZ in the long run will probably be a more sought after model down the road due to it being limited only in certain markets.
 

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To me the second Gen is a definite upgrade in styling. It is more sophisticated and less boy racer. I think the second gen GR86 has that more boy racer look about it where the the BRZ, especially in metallic colors reminds me more mature, conservative, more like Porsche. We are of course talking primarily about the front ends of these cars. The rear extended spoiler of the GR86 reminds me more of the Supra. I think it suits the GR86 where it would not suit the BRZ. Just a thought. I think the BRZ in this version 2 may suit an older audience.
Having some of the designs improvements to the cars stability, stiffness, and weight be dropped by the GR86 in response to one guys wish, does leave a little bit of disappointed. But equally so I am disappointed at Subaru's failure (in my opinion!) to brand and design its front better.

If I'm being honest I want the BRZ for everything except I want the GR front end, and the GR start-up animation. GR Branding overall is so superior.

BRZ, without releasing a future turbo, should of made this new iteration of the car the BRZ STi. Its a dedicated sports car, dont show me the star logo in the start-up animation that adorns your forester, Show me a cool STi animation, with an STi on my steering wheel. What a missed opportunity.
 

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Having some of the designs improvements to the cars stability, stiffness, and weight be dropped by the GR86 in response to one guys wish, does leave a little bit of disappointed. But equally so I am disappointed at Subaru's failure (in my opinion!) to brand and design its front better.

If I'm being honest I want the BRZ for everything except I want the GR front end, and the GR start-up animation. GR Branding overall is so superior.

BRZ, without releasing a future turbo, should of made this new iteration of the car the BRZ STi. Its a dedicated sports car, dont show me the star logo in the start-up animation that adorns your forester, Show me a cool STi animation, with an STi on my steering wheel. What a missed opportunity.
I always felt like Toyota held Subaru back in a way with the BRZ. The BRZ could’ve been either a turbo sports car like you said or in Subaru fashion a AWD 22b successor (chassis is a variation of an impreza)

The 86 in general is built off of its connection to the old AE86 chassis (original marketing was front engine RWD like the AE86, boxer motor like the Sports 800, styling of the 2000gt) only the 86 thing stuck.

I agree with you.
 

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The reality of it is that the low cost sports car market is dying out. The last hold outs at this present time are Mazda, Subaru, and Toyota. I am defining a true sports car as a rear wheel drive 2 Dr. A vehicle with either fast back styling or a convertible. All 3 companies offer RWD spots cars starting under 30K. All 3 offer naturally aspirated engines the way all original and no longer produced sports cars were offered. Further because they are produced this way they do not cannibalize other products in the Toyota, Subaru or Mazda line up. In Toyota's case going turbo would start to cannibalize
the Supra. Doing a sports car off the WRX chassis would cannibalize the WRX and be to costly to produce with not enough sales. Ditto for Mazda. Most people today want a 4dr vehicle. I am grateful that these cars are still produced. I like the fact there is a more clear distinction in the front end styling of these cars than version one. Further unless you are driving at the limit the cars are going to drive the same. The purity of a RWD sportscar is far superior to anything like a FWD or an AWD system that is based off FWD. I urge you to watch Jason Camisa Hagerty video when he compares the handling of the GR86 to the Mark 8 Golf GTI. It is really apparent no matter how good a FWD car is engineered the default limit is going to be understeer. The Civic Type R is the best out there on FWD but it is 40K. It costs money to get a FWD car to minimize torque steer and approach a more neutral handling balance. When the new WRX comes out (I guess this week), your going to be looking at a more expensive car but will not have the handling choices of a RWD car.
There is a purity these simple sports cars have that cannot be duplicated for under 30K now because there are just not enough sales to justify it.
 

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The reality of it is that the low cost sports car market is dying out. The last hold outs at this present time are Mazda, Subaru, and Toyota. I am defining a true sports car as a rear wheel drive 2 Dr. A vehicle with either fast back styling or a convertible. All 3 companies offer RWD spots cars starting under 30K. All 3 offer naturally aspirated engines the way all original and no longer produced sports cars were offered. Further because they are produced this way they do not cannibalize other products in the Toyota, Subaru or Mazda line up. In Toyota's case going turbo would start to cannibalize
the Supra. Doing a sports car off the WRX chassis would cannibalize the WRX and be to costly to produce with not enough sales. Ditto for Mazda. Most people today want a 4dr vehicle. I am grateful that these cars are still produced. I like the fact there is a more clear distinction in the front end styling of these cars than version one. Further unless you are driving at the limit the cars are going to drive the same. The purity of a RWD sportscar is far superior to anything like a FWD or an AWD system that is based off FWD. I urge you to watch Jason Camisa Hagerty video when he compares the handling of the GR86 to the Mark 8 Golf GTI. It is really apparent no matter how good a FWD car is engineered the default limit is going to be understeer. The Civic Type R is the best out there on FWD but it is 40K. It costs money to get a FWD car to minimize torque steer and approach a more neutral handling balance. When the new WRX comes out (I guess this week), your going to be looking at a more expensive car but will not have the handling choices of a RWD car.
There is a purity these simple sports cars have that cannot be duplicated for under 30K now because there are just not enough sales to justify it.
I think we understand that, what we’re saying is there was a lot of room left for these cars. Realistically the twins are on a Frankenstein WRX/Impreza chassis anyways. So for Subaru they could make a AWD BRZ to further differentiate the twins.

Yes RWD has its perks and is fun, but it’s more of Toyota’s thing then it’s been Subaru’s and Subaru fans know that. Being a small coupe alone it wouldn’t step on the WRX’s toes for sales but to at least offer it as an option would further separate the two. Would it weight more? Yeah, but it would have completely different dynamics, some better then it’s twin, some worst.

As for the 86 it’s a spiritual successor to the original AE86 chassis, not a actual successor to the line, so having it as a simple RWD sports car is fine. The GR Corolla is suppose to go up against the Type Rs and STi’s at 37kish. If you strip away the nostalgia (initial d) of the Sporty Corolla line from the AE86 all the way to the AE111’s they were suppose to compete in the sporty commuter car segment.
 

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Going to AWD on the BRZ and going turbo(which you would have to do) means way more money. So if you give the BRZ a turbo and AWD you are going to have to price it in the 40 to 50 K range. You are going to have to upgrade the interior. Doing this will give you a Z and Supra competitor. You cannot sell it in the 30 to 40 K range as you will cannibalize sales of the WRX and STI. You will not be expanding the market. Rather you will be cutting into the pie. In the 30 to 40K range the WRX and STI will win the battle and the BRZ will lose and end up not existing. I agree that the RWD 2dr coupe has been Toyota's thing. However, in todays market you cannot make a cost efficient 2dr sport coupe with AWD and a turbo for under 30K and expect enough sales to make any money on it. No car company, no matter how big or small is going to waste any R&D money on that type of product. The only option would be if Toyota really goes ahead with the GR Corolla(4dr hatch) and Subaru gets a version of it. Assuming it could be sold in the 30 to 40K range its still going to cut into WRX sales. Here is what I think. You are all bemoaning the fact that Subaru discontinued the WRX Hatchback. What you really wanted was the BRZ to take over that mantel because Subaru has had no history with RWD prior to 2013. Well they do now have a short RWD history because Subaru did a "brilliant job" of developing and engineering a RWD chassis from their AWD platform. Therefore there is validity to the BRZ as reasonably inexpensive RWD sports coupe. But if you feel that an AWD 4dr hatchback turbo is where you think Subaru should go then you are not a customer for the BRZ. With the upgrades on version 2, both the the BRZ and 86 are really a Japanese continuation of the discontinued front engined AE 86 or perhaps in Subaru's case the front engined Porsche 944.
 

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Going to AWD on the BRZ and going turbo(which you would have to do) means way more money. So if you give the BRZ a turbo and AWD you are going to have to price it in the 40 to 50 K range. You are going to have to upgrade the interior. Doing this will give you a Z and Supra competitor. You cannot sell it in the 30 to 40 K range as you will cannibalize sales of the WRX and STI. You will not be expanding the market. Rather you will be cutting into the pie. In the 30 to 40K range the WRX and STI will win the battle and the BRZ will lose and end up not existing. I agree that the RWD 2dr coupe has been Toyota's thing. However, in todays market you cannot make a cost efficient 2dr sport coupe with AWD and a turbo for under 30K and expect enough sales to make any money on it. No car company, no matter how big or small is going to waste any R&D money on that type of product. The only option would be if Toyota really goes ahead with the GR Corolla(4dr hatch) and Subaru gets a version of it. Assuming it could be sold in the 30 to 40K range its still going to cut into WRX sales. Here is what I think. You are all bemoaning the fact that Subaru discontinued the WRX Hatchback. What you really wanted was the BRZ to take over that mantel because Subaru has had no history with RWD prior to 2013. Well they do now have a short RWD history because Subaru did a "brilliant job" of developing and engineering a RWD chassis from their AWD platform. Therefore there is validity to the BRZ as reasonably inexpensive RWD sports coupe. But if you feel that an AWD 4dr hatchback turbo is where you think Subaru should go then you are not a customer for the BRZ. With the upgrades on version 2, both the the BRZ and 86 are really a Japanese continuation of the discontinued front engined AE 86 or perhaps in Subaru's case the front engined Porsche 944.
my man it doesn’t matter at the end of the day. We’re saying there was a lot left on the table. Blighty was just commenting on his disappointment in Subaru not going further in developing the BRZ to make it more special, from little stuff like just calling it a STi. I said they could’ve done that or even added something to further differentiate.

I said AWD as an idea for further differentiating the two, just because the twins already ride on a modified Impreza chassis, being that a regular WRX is at 26k with a turbo and awd, a awd naturally aspirated BRZ wouldn’t be expensive (The Impreza is literally a NA AWD car). I never said anything about a Turbo AWD BRZ.

because overall I do agree with Blighty that Toyota has better marketing, from the 86 logo, to the “it’s a low power, RWD platform like the old AE86 chassis.” To even the “GR” branding now. I agree that at least Subaru could’ve called the BRZ the “BRZ STi”

And I’m sure the GR Corolla will not be shared with Subaru, since it’s a rival to the STi, it’s suppose to be a hand built car in Motomachi next to the GR Yaris. GR Corolla is suppose to be the “3rd Brother” of the Toyota lineup (GR Supra, GR Corolla, GR86)
 
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