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Yes-And having viewed the following 3 on line journalist shows Mat Moran Motoring, Red Line Reviews, and Driving Sports TV there seems to be some clear opinions on the handling differences and ride differences.

At the limit-

Handling-
Toyota 86-More tale happy, more playful
Subaru BRZ-More difficult to get the tail to rotate but more high speed stability. Some felt they had more
confidence at speed in the BRZ.

Steering-Matt said he felt the steering in the GR86 had slightly more feel but he felt both steering racks were light.

Ride-
Toyota 86 has a slightly smoother ride and has slightly less road noise.

Also some indicated in daily driving the automatic was not as much of a penalty as the previous automatic.
However they would still go for the manual if they were buying the cars.

Really as mentioned previously two different philosophies between Subaru and Toyota. As to which would be faster on a track it sounds like it gets down to the track and the driver.

As for which vehicle I would go for that's still a tough one. Personally I think metallic colors favor the BRZ with its front end where brighter bolder colors favor the GR86 with its front end. Hmmmmmmmm
 

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Yes-And having viewed the following 3 on line journalist shows Mat Moran Motoring, Red Line Reviews, and Driving Sports TV there seems to be some clear opinions on the handling differences and ride differences.

At the limit-

Handling-
Toyota 86-More tale happy, more playful
Subaru BRZ-More difficult to get the tail to rotate but more high speed stability. Some felt they had more
confidence at speed in the BRZ.

Steering-Matt said he felt the steering in the GR86 had slightly more feel but he felt both steering racks were light.

Ride-
Toyota 86 has a slightly smoother ride and has slightly less road noise.

Also some indicated in daily driving the automatic was not as much of a penalty as the previous automatic.
However they would still go for the manual if they were buying the cars.

Really as mentioned previously two different philosophies between Subaru and Toyota. As to which would be faster on a track it sounds like it gets down to the track and the driver.

As for which vehicle I would go for that's still a tough one. Personally I think metallic colors favor the BRZ with its front end where brighter bolder colors favor the GR86 with its front end. Hmmmmmmmm
I noticed that as well. Some of the comments I saw on YouTube were based heavily on the BRZ’s stability and how it’s disappointing to them it’s not “tail happy”

Little do they know you can still throw the rear out with a little more effort, just have more stability at speed.
 

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Further if you are a person that chases lap times it would seem to me that you might do better in the BRZ perhaps due to the confidence at speed. But then again it may depend on the track. Drifting the tail is more fun but perhaps not as efficient for times.
 

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I'm not a suspension guru, but swapping out the rear sway bar on the BRZ to something a bit stiffer should make it tail happy. Conversely, doing the opposite on the GR86 should make it handle closer to the BRZ. Considering that the aftermarket will be making parts for both of these, I can't see it being a deal breaker either way. Just hope the bar is easy to get on/off without too much hassle. On previous Subaru's it can be a bit like playing Jenga or Tetris.
 

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It would make it closer but there is also the front suspension and springs. Its not just a rear bar.
Agreed, it won't make the cars handle the same, but the stiffer rear bar should make the BRZ more tail happy without changing anything else. I'm just thinking about the lowest cost way to make the BRZ drift. Also should be interesting to see if the mounting points for both types are bars are on each car. I wouldn't be surprised if the cars were manufactured the same way with both mounting points (subframe and body) and the ability to swap them back and forth.
 

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Agreed, it won't make the cars handle the same, but the stiffer rear bar should make the BRZ more tail happy without changing anything else. I'm just thinking about the lowest cost way to make the BRZ drift. Also should be interesting to see if the mounting points for both types are bars are on each car. I wouldn't be surprised if the cars were manufactured the same way with both mounting points (subframe and body) and the ability to swap them back and forth.
Nobody was struggling to drift the BRZ in Japan though. I think the BRZs setup is probably ideal for 90% of people. On YouTube people are talking like they’ll be drifting everyday, every turn, so the 86 suits their drive style. Lol.
 

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Nobody was struggling to drift the BRZ in Japan though. I think the BRZs setup is probably ideal for 90% of people. On YouTube people are talking like they’ll be drifting everyday, every turn so the 86 suits their drive style. Lol.
True, i'd personally rather have the more stable car knowing that I could make it tail-happy with minor modifications or more input from the driver. Someone
Just buy a BRZ and swap the bumper later. lol.
The paint isn't the same though is it? So the bumper will need to go for paint/prep. Still not awful.
 

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True, i'd personally rather have the more stable car knowing that I could make it tail-happy with minor modifications or more input from the driver. Someone


The paint isn't the same though is it? So the bumper will need to go for paint/prep. Still not awful.
Depends on the color, most of the colors I will say, look better on the BRZ and I think Subie did that on purpose. Lol
 

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It is either TRD or STI springs and stabilizer bars. So why not going with STI??
Curious to see if the mount points for both bar types will be available on both cars still they claim one bolts to subframe and one to the body. Only reason not to go STI is $$$. In the past the STI suspension bits had to be imported (at least for WRX/STI) which made them pricier than other offerings. With something like a bar that's just a piece of metal, I don't think it matters, but for other suspension bits, it might be worth the cost. Just paint your generic bar STI pink :)

Will be interesting to see actual part differences once we get access to the cars. While they're claiming spring rates are different, i'm also wondering if the shocks are the same or different and if they're similarly valved etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
True, i'd personally rather have the more stable car knowing that I could make it tail-happy with minor modifications or more input from the driver. Someone


The paint isn't the same though is it? So the bumper will need to go for paint/prep. Still not awful.
Not sure, could be a different colour. But you can always match the paint. But I guess it really depends on if you like how the BRZ drives and if you also like the interior as well. It just seems more work if you want to swap out the suspension than just a bumper swap imo.
 

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Here's a good read on the differences between the two models.

"Out of all the cliché professional-email euphemisms people like to use, "there seems to be a disconnect" has gotta be one of my favorites. And judging from some things that were said during Subaru's technical presentation for the new BRZ's media preview last week, there certainly seems to be a disconnect between Subaru and its business partner, Toyota, as to what Subaru's goals were when differentiating the BRZ from the GR 86. We gave you a brief look at those differences earlier this year; now we're going far more in-depth.

Just like last time, the new Subaru and Toyota sports cars are a result of a joint venture between the two companies. With Subaru responsible for engineering and manufacturing while Toyota did the design, the BRZ and GR 86 are mostly the same car other than different front clips, badges, and a handful of small tuning, suspension, and chassis tweaks that should make them feel different to drive, however slightly.

In a letter to all journalists who attended the GR 86's launch event in Monticello, Toyota GR chief engineer Yasunori Suezawa explained, "...as a result of both companies thoroughly pursuing each other’s driving taste, hardware such as front knuckle, spring, stabilizer, bushing, and engine ECU software were changed. [The] overall difference is that Toyota focused on engine performance response, and BRZ focused more on comfort, [while] both focused on handling for better driving."

Before letting us out to go test the new BRZ at Lime Rock last week, however, Subaru car line planning manager Michael Redic told journalists, "I've heard some comments that Toyota said that we designed our vehicle for comfort. That is not the case. We designed our vehicle more for stability and precision. What we wanted to have was for the vehicle to react as the driver expects it."

According to Redic, engineering differences between the Toyobaru twins include different tunes for the engine, all four dampers and steering, and a Subaru front spring rate that's seven percent higher and 11 percent lower in the rear than the Toyota's. The BRZ uses aluminum front knuckles instead of the Toyota's steel for the benefit of unsprung weight. Additionally, Subaru stiffened the BRZ's rear trailing link bushing, whereas Toyota apparently stuck with the same carryover part from last year.

Subaru also spent resources shaving weight from its car's stabilizer bars, blessing the BRZ with a hollow 18.3-mm bar up front and a 14-mm bar out back, while the new 86 uses a solid 18-mm part in the front and a 15-mm bar in the rear. More significantly, perhaps, the BRZ's rear stabilizer bar has been mounted directly to the BRZ's body instead of onto the subframe like the previous-gen Toyobaru did and the GR 86 still does—an enhancement that was apparently derived from learnings gleaned from Subaru's in-house global platform that underpins pretty much every other Subaru bar the outgoing WRX.

That said, bottom-line performance between the two cars should indeed still be the same, Redic said. "How the vehicles behave on their way to doing their thing is what's going to be different between them," he added.

Interestingly though, Redic later confirmed to The Drive that all of those enhancements—the aluminum knuckles, lighter stabilizer bars, bolting bars directly to bodies—do indeed make the BRZ a more expensive car to produce. As of this writing, Toyota has not announced GR 86 pricing other than a pledge to have it start somewhere "under $30,000." And unless it undercuts the BRZ (which starts at $28,955) or provides more value in some other area, it sounds like the BRZ is the one to get."
 

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According to Redic, engineering differences between the Toyobaru twins include different tunes for the engine
I assume they meant throttle, because I can almost guarantee the engine 'tuning' is the same. The amount of testing and retesting and emissions, etc, etc. make it highly unlikely toyota bothered to retune the whole motor.
 
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