Not usually. The engine would be just fine until the pickup tube sucks up air instead of oil. Low oil or full oil makes no difference at all as long as it gets in the tube. From the point of air getting in the pickup tube to engine failure can be a matter of seconds.
2022 GR86 catastrophic engine failure at 5k miles, Toyota refusing to cover under warranty
I purchased a new Toyota GR86 in June of 2022, manual transmission, premium package, in white. I bought the extended warranty and the maintenance plan. I Loved it. I paid over the MSRP to get it.
On January 1st (less than six months old), the car with 5,010 miles spun a bearing resulting in a catastrophic engine failure. The vehicle had yet to have its first 7,500-mile service. No warning lights or indicators beforehand and the car was never tracked. It was flatbed towed to the nearest Toyota dealer (Toyota of Marin). The initial reports from the dealer, once they removed the oil pan and inspected it, was RIPG (or “rest in place gasket”), also known as RTV silicon, found in the oil pick up. The engine had metal particles in the oil pan, highlighting significant damage to the entire engine.
Fast forward six weeks later, after dozens of calls with the dealer and Toyota, they refuse to cover the failure under warranty. They also refuse to share the report from the Toyota Factory Service Specialist who inspected the car.
They are quoting me $27,500 out-of-pocket to replace the motor.
If you have a 2022 Toyota GR86, beware.
Any advice? I tried the Toyota Brand Engagement Center, but no luck.
On January 1st (less than six months old), the car with 5,010 miles spun a bearing resulting in a catastrophic engine failure. The vehicle had yet to have its first 7,500-mile service. No warning lights or indicators beforehand and the car was never tracked. It was flatbed towed to the nearest Toyota dealer (Toyota of Marin). The initial reports from the dealer, once they removed the oil pan and inspected it, was RIPG (or “rest in place gasket”), also known as RTV silicon, found in the oil pick up. The engine had metal particles in the oil pan, highlighting significant damage to the entire engine.
Fast forward six weeks later, after dozens of calls with the dealer and Toyota, they refuse to cover the failure under warranty. They also refuse to share the report from the Toyota Factory Service Specialist who inspected the car.
They are quoting me $27,500 out-of-pocket to replace the motor.
If you have a 2022 Toyota GR86, beware.
Any advice? I tried the Toyota Brand Engagement Center, but no luck.
321 - 340 of 358 Posts
I see your point - so you basically have oil or you don’t, and when you don’t, it’s good bye thin oil film and engine, and hello to full metal on metal friction.Not usually. The engine would be just fine until the pickup tube sucks up air instead of oil. Low oil or full oil makes no difference at all as long as it gets in the tube. From the point of air getting in the pickup tube to engine failure can be a matter of seconds.
Thanks for clarifying.
Not usually. The engine would be just fine until the pickup tube sucks up air instead of oil. Low oil or full oil makes no difference at all as long as it gets in the tube. From the point of air getting in the pickup tube to engine failure can be a matter of seconds.
Does this also mean oil being at the low mark is ok for sedate driving and is unlikely to cause damage?I see your point - so you basically have oil or you don’t, and when you don’t, it’s good bye thin oil film and engine, and hello to full metal on metal friction.
Thanks for clarifying.
Not recommended of course even if true!
Good point - I was reminded of this as I cooked spaghetti today and watched the noodles drain. Clogged flowrate that was severely impacted and exacerbated by tempFor science, someone buy a pick up tube, put a gallon oil on top and see how fast it goes through. Then partially block the tube and run it again. There are a lot of variables that would be hard to replicate outside the engine, but it'd be cool to see the results.
An important thing to note.
Surface area =\= total oil flow.
the pump is going to draw XX ml/sec. If the pickup is obstructed but can still supply sufficient oil for the flow of the pump (or in excess of that number) the obstruction makes no difference. The overwhelmingly likely scenario with our cars is that the pickup has the potential to flow FAR in excess of what will ever be demanded by the pump, and therefore there is a very healthy margin for obstruction before oiling to the engine sees any detriment.
You can see this because Subaru intentionally redesigned the pickup tube for much greater surface area despite an engine with more or less (there are some differences in the journals and channels in the head but it isn’t much) the same oil flow vs the FA20. Is it a cheap way of addressing subpar manufacturing consistency? Yes. Does it work? Also yes.
Surface area =\= total oil flow.
the pump is going to draw XX ml/sec. If the pickup is obstructed but can still supply sufficient oil for the flow of the pump (or in excess of that number) the obstruction makes no difference. The overwhelmingly likely scenario with our cars is that the pickup has the potential to flow FAR in excess of what will ever be demanded by the pump, and therefore there is a very healthy margin for obstruction before oiling to the engine sees any detriment.
You can see this because Subaru intentionally redesigned the pickup tube for much greater surface area despite an engine with more or less (there are some differences in the journals and channels in the head but it isn’t much) the same oil flow vs the FA20. Is it a cheap way of addressing subpar manufacturing consistency? Yes. Does it work? Also yes.
I can vouch for subaru's design on having high pressure on the oil pump. On street driving at 190F from 2 to 3 thousands rpm, the oil pressure is reading at a healthy 60+ psiAn important thing to note.
Surface area =\= total oil flow.
the pump is going to draw XX ml/sec. If the pickup is obstructed but can still supply sufficient oil for the flow of the pump (or in excess of that number) the obstruction makes no difference. The overwhelmingly likely scenario with our cars is that the pickup has the potential to flow FAR in excess of what will ever be demanded by the pump, and therefore there is a very healthy margin for obstruction before oiling to the engine sees any detriment.
You can see this because Subaru intentionally redesigned the pickup tube for much greater surface area despite an engine with more or less (there are some differences in the journals and channels in the head but it isn’t much) the same oil flow vs the FA20. Is it a cheap way of addressing subpar manufacturing consistency? Yes. Does it work? Also yes.
In general yes. The minimum mark is meant to be the lowest safe operating level. But like you said that is for sedate driving. Prolonged high RPM or or hard cornering would still be a concern.Does this also mean oil being at the low mark is ok for sedate driving and is unlikely to cause damage?
Not recommended of course even if true!
Thats a good point and maybe the reason, why this is misunderstood so often.An important thing to note.
Surface area =\= total oil flow.
The possible amount of oil, which can flow is much much bigger, than the maximum amount, the oil pump can suck.
E.g. if the possibile maximum flow is 200ml per second, but only 10ml are needed*
*in imperial units: one giraffe can fir the door, but only a dog is needed.
Added American units for you.*in FREEDOM units: one BUFFALO can fir the door, but only a BALD EAGLE is needed.
There are a lot of unknowns about the specifications and flow rates, particularly under driving conditions. Its clearly been designed to be more resilient.An important thing to note.
Surface area =\= total oil flow.
the pump is going to draw XX ml/sec. If the pickup is obstructed but can still supply sufficient oil for the flow of the pump (or in excess of that number) the obstruction makes no difference. The overwhelmingly likely scenario with our cars is that the pickup has the potential to flow FAR in excess of what will ever be demanded by the pump, and therefore there is a very healthy margin for obstruction before oiling to the engine sees any detriment.
You can see this because Subaru intentionally redesigned the pickup tube for much greater surface area despite an engine with more or less (there are some differences in the journals and channels in the head but it isn’t much) the same oil flow vs the FA20. Is it a cheap way of addressing subpar manufacturing consistency? Yes. Does it work? Also yes.
I do wonder also if you have one side particularly badly blocked, if the gforces being applied in the car are in such a way as to decrease the flow rate further.
Countless variables under all types of driving conditions. Someone find the engineering team that designed the pickup and have a 3 hour podcast with them.There are a lot of unknowns about the specifications and flow rates, particularly under driving conditions. Its clearly been designed to be more resilient.
I do wonder also if you have one side particularly badly blocked, if the gforces being applied in the car are in such a way as to decrease the flow rate further.
I'll trust that they thought of all the conditions. My life is less stressful that way.
Link?Countless variables under all types of driving conditions. Someone find the engineering team that designed the pickup and have a 3 hour podcast with them.
No link. I'm saying someone needs to take them hostage and interrogate them.Link?
Oh, bruh you're fake news 😂No link. I'm saying someone needs to take them hostage and interrogate them.
Same here.I agree. I am still on the trust, but VERIFY part of the story.
Additionally, low engine oil, especially if the engine is close to running dry would give off some warning, especially something audible ie grinding/clackety sounds etc.
Until I see the paperwork showing the actual warranty denial, I am going to treat this as a trolling exercise. I will however check my oil even more frequently.
Checking the oil/fluids comes with owing a vehicle. Unfortunately, with tech advances, people tend to think that just one inspection is necessary very couple of months or so.
Driving conditions vary, climate, usage are all factors that can affect engine behavior and consumption of oil/fluids.
Taking 5-10 min a week to check can save you major headaches down the line.
Maybe relevant to the topic.
I am guessing that engines have a gearGood point - I was reminded of this as I cooked spaghetti today and watched the noodles drain. Clogged flowrate that was severely impacted and exacerbated by temp
Quick note on the oil pump - it is a positive displacement pump which means it will force oil out… as long as the sump is not dry. In fact, blocking the output of such a gear (or rotor) pump will cause output pressure to increase to point of basically blowing out seals or the pump itself.There are a lot of unknowns about the specifications and flow rates, particularly under driving conditions. Its clearly been designed to be more resilient.
I do wonder also if you have one side particularly badly blocked, if the gforces being applied in the car are in such a way as to decrease the flow rate further.
I could not find the effect of some, but not complete blockage on the intake side but my guess is the gear pump will generate massive suction force to pull oil through pretty massive clogging.
However, low oil will cause basically air to be sucked in which will cause cavitation damage, enough to pit the metal parts. Lack of lubricant will of course lead to a cascading set of failures rapidly thereafter.
Unless it's a Honda 😆Not usually. The engine would be just fine until the pickup tube sucks up air instead of oil. Low oil or full oil makes no difference at all as long as it gets in the tube. From the point of air getting in the pickup tube to engine failure can be a matter of seconds.
FACT..!! Lol
Honda.... FTW!
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