There was a post / screenshot of some actual Subaru engineering jargon somewhere about the design of the pick up tube. I didn't save it but I'm sure someone did.
2022 GR86 catastrophic engine failure at 5k miles, Toyota refusing to cover under warranty
I purchased a new Toyota GR86 in June of 2022, manual transmission, premium package, in white. I bought the extended warranty and the maintenance plan. I Loved it. I paid over the MSRP to get it.
On January 1st (less than six months old), the car with 5,010 miles spun a bearing resulting in a catastrophic engine failure. The vehicle had yet to have its first 7,500-mile service. No warning lights or indicators beforehand and the car was never tracked. It was flatbed towed to the nearest Toyota dealer (Toyota of Marin). The initial reports from the dealer, once they removed the oil pan and inspected it, was RIPG (or “rest in place gasket”), also known as RTV silicon, found in the oil pick up. The engine had metal particles in the oil pan, highlighting significant damage to the entire engine.
Fast forward six weeks later, after dozens of calls with the dealer and Toyota, they refuse to cover the failure under warranty. They also refuse to share the report from the Toyota Factory Service Specialist who inspected the car.
They are quoting me $27,500 out-of-pocket to replace the motor.
If you have a 2022 Toyota GR86, beware.
Any advice? I tried the Toyota Brand Engagement Center, but no luck.
On January 1st (less than six months old), the car with 5,010 miles spun a bearing resulting in a catastrophic engine failure. The vehicle had yet to have its first 7,500-mile service. No warning lights or indicators beforehand and the car was never tracked. It was flatbed towed to the nearest Toyota dealer (Toyota of Marin). The initial reports from the dealer, once they removed the oil pan and inspected it, was RIPG (or “rest in place gasket”), also known as RTV silicon, found in the oil pick up. The engine had metal particles in the oil pan, highlighting significant damage to the entire engine.
Fast forward six weeks later, after dozens of calls with the dealer and Toyota, they refuse to cover the failure under warranty. They also refuse to share the report from the Toyota Factory Service Specialist who inspected the car.
They are quoting me $27,500 out-of-pocket to replace the motor.
If you have a 2022 Toyota GR86, beware.
Any advice? I tried the Toyota Brand Engagement Center, but no luck.
301 - 320 of 358 Posts
I still fuck around with dragons and video games and I am 46.Thanks. I stopped competing 12 yrs ago. She's 25, should know better by now.
At her age I was 100% self sufficient, married, home owner, with a career.
She's still fucking around with dragons and video games 🙄
Subaru had it in writing. Their shop manager personally called me to tell me that there are 25% to 30% clogged. But I get why other people are skeptical, cus im just another pleb on the web.Not to put words in Vincent's mouth, but the screen has 5 sides, so 20% per side, lose one side, down to 80% flow, but it's the side in the direction of the flow, so take off another 10%. Back of napkin math, not exact fluid mechanics, but probably fairly close.
I vouch for you're integrity, even if you are just a pleb on the web.Subaru had it in writing. Their shop manager personally called me to tell me that there are 25% to 30% clogged. But I get why other people are skeptical, cus im just another pleb on the web.
Hope the OP comes back at some point. For starters, I don't believe that he ran the oil close to dry and I don't agree with everyone that says he should be on the hook if he did. There is no way you are going to convince me that burning or leaking through enough oil in 5k miles (even the alleged "shitty" break-in oil) to spin a bearing is normal. And I am sick of people talking about these engines like they are Ferrari's - it's the same damn engine they put Outbacks/Ascents. It is practically the definition of econobox.
The fishiest thing about this whole thing to me is that the OP can't get/hasn't seen the analysis of the engine, alleged cause of the failure, and the exact reasons they are denying the warranty claim. I just don't see any Dealer/TMNA saying that he isn't entitled to see that - especially since in every other case we know about, the owner definitely saw this stuff. I think until he/we see that, I am going to throw this in - interesting unsubstantiated fish story...
The fishiest thing about this whole thing to me is that the OP can't get/hasn't seen the analysis of the engine, alleged cause of the failure, and the exact reasons they are denying the warranty claim. I just don't see any Dealer/TMNA saying that he isn't entitled to see that - especially since in every other case we know about, the owner definitely saw this stuff. I think until he/we see that, I am going to throw this in - interesting unsubstantiated fish story...
While I agree it "shouldnt" happen. It does. Not just to these cars but many. I will also point out that other than the block, timing chain and few parts of the accessory drive, there are very few similarities between our engine and the turbo FA24. The entire rotating assembly is different. Not making excuses, just saying it is not apples to apples. The turbo engines also build RPM much slower, max revs are 1500RPM lower, and the PCV system is beefed up.
I stand by the assertion that people just assume they never have to open the hood anymore, just because none of their other cars needed it.
Like the cops say "ignorance of the law is no excuse" meaning just because you didnt know something was illegal when you did it does not mean you are not guilty of commiting the crime. Same applies here. Just because you assumed you didnt have to or it never dawned on you to check oil on a brand new car does not mean you are off the hook for running it dry.
I stand by the assertion that people just assume they never have to open the hood anymore, just because none of their other cars needed it.
Like the cops say "ignorance of the law is no excuse" meaning just because you didnt know something was illegal when you did it does not mean you are not guilty of commiting the crime. Same applies here. Just because you assumed you didnt have to or it never dawned on you to check oil on a brand new car does not mean you are off the hook for running it dry.
I do have problem with how they mount the pick up tube and the construction of the pick up tube which is plastic. If it cracks now we have to remove the timing cover to replace it. Hopefully it's durable unlike the EJ25 block tube.While I agree it "shouldnt" happen. It does. Not just to these cars but many. I will also point out that other than the block, timing chain and few parts of the accessory drive, there are very few similarities between our engine and the turbo FA24. The entire rotating assembly is different. Not making excuses, just saying it is not apples to apples. The turbo engines also build RPM much slower, max revs are 1500RPM lower, and the PCV system is beefed up.
I stand by the assertion that people just assume they never have to open the hood anymore, just because none of their other cars needed it.
Like the cops say "ignorance of the law is no excuse" meaning just because you didnt know something was illegal when you did it does not mean you are not guilty of commiting the crime. Same applies here. Just because you assumed you didnt have to or it never dawned on you to check oil on a brand new car does not mean you are off the hook for running it dry.
So you are telling me that leaking/burning a quart every 1k miles on a brand new engine isn't a defect that should be covered under warranty? That's BS. That's way more oil than my e92 BMW went through when it had 220k miles on it and oil was all over that engine bay. Big difference between a brand new Subaru/Toyota and a 220k 12 year old Bimmer known to leak like a sieve.While I agree it "shouldnt" happen. It does. Not just to these cars but many. I will also point out that other than the block, timing chain and few parts of the accessory drive, there are very few similarities between our engine and the turbo FA24. The entire rotating assembly is different. Not making excuses, just saying it is not apples to apples. The turbo engines also build RPM much slower, max revs are 1500RPM lower, and the PCV system is beefed up.
I stand by the assertion that people just assume they never have to open the hood anymore, just because none of their other cars needed it.
Like the cops say "ignorance of the law is no excuse" meaning just because you didnt know something was illegal when you did it does not mean you are not guilty of commiting the crime. Same applies here. Just because you assumed you didnt have to or it never dawned on you to check oil on a brand new car does not mean you are off the hook for running it dry.
And I'm sick of people telling the OP he was stupid for not changing out the oil after 1k miles. I did - and I did it myself - but only because I spent a lot of time on these forums. I don't think it is fair to expect anyone to have to do that in order to maintain a warranty without them making it EXPLICITLY part of the break-in procedure.
Frankly, I still really doubt that the issue was the amount of oil in the pan or the condition of the oil especially since there is no other story (at least that I am aware of) this type of failure on the webs. And while you may believe that regularly checking oil level should be something everyone does, I can guarantee you that 50% (or more) of the owners of these cars haven't done that and won't ever...
Nobody is arguing that an engine SHOULD burn that much oil nor that he 100% needed to change it at 1k.So you are telling me that leaking/burning a quart every 1k miles on a brand new engine isn't a defect that should be covered under warranty? That's BS. That's way more oil than my e92 BMW went through when it had 220k miles on it and oil was all over that engine bay. Big difference between a brand new Subaru/Toyota and a 220k 12 year old Bimmer known to leak like a sieve.
And I'm sick of people telling the OP he was stupid for not changing out the oil after 1k miles. I did - and I did it myself - but only because I spent a lot of time on these forums. I don't think it is fair to expect anyone to have to do that in order to maintain a warranty without them making it EXPLICITLY part of the break-in procedure.
Frankly, I still really doubt that the issue was the amount of oil in the pan or the condition of the oil especially since there is no other story (at least that I am aware of) this type of failure on the webs. And while you may believe that regularly checking oil level should be something everyone does, I can guarantee you that 50% (or more) of the owners of these cars haven't done that and won't ever...
The argument is that you should never go 5,000 miles without checking oil. He was quite low on oil which is as good a reason as any for Toyota to say “not our problem”
I wonder if that's the reason why rotary engines are so unreliable throughout the years. Is it because people don't top off their oil in rotaries? (I know there are a lot more to maintaining a rotary engine) But rotary engines by design burn oil, I'm not saying subaru boxer engines are as bad as rotaries.So you are telling me that leaking/burning a quart every 1k miles on a brand new engine isn't a defect that should be covered under warranty? That's BS. That's way more oil than my e92 BMW went through when it had 220k miles on it and oil was all over that engine bay. Big difference between a brand new Subaru/Toyota and a 220k 12 year old Bimmer known to leak like a sieve.
And I'm sick of people telling the OP he was stupid for not changing out the oil after 1k miles. I did - and I did it myself - but only because I spent a lot of time on these forums. I don't think it is fair to expect anyone to have to do that in order to maintain a warranty without them making it EXPLICITLY part of the break-in procedure.
Frankly, I still really doubt that the issue was the amount of oil in the pan or the condition of the oil especially since there is no other story (at least that I am aware of) this type of failure on the webs. And while you may believe that regularly checking oil level should be something everyone does, I can guarantee you that 50% (or more) of the owners of these cars haven't done that and won't ever...
But what I was saying that Subaru engines are finicky and people should keep an eye on their Subaru engines. Personally I do extensive amount of research before I purchase a brand new car, luckily I was already into Subaru by the time I got my BRZ, so I knew about their previous history, blow bys, head gasket, ringland failures and burning oil. Learning from that I kept a tap on my car all the time.
That is exactly what I am saying. It is so common that they point it out in the manual. It is common across the board with the nearly dozen OEM I test engines with regularly. Brand new crate engine always need top off for the first few thousand miles. After that they can run tens of thousands of miles without losing any. Every german car, especially the turbo models lose a TON of oil during break in. Many enough to trigger the "low oil" light. On those cars it typically continues the life of the car. Its so common they equip them with LOW OIL LIGHTS.So you are telling me that leaking/burning a quart every 1k miles on a brand new engine isn't a defect that should be covered under warranty?
Experiences vary and maybe there was a problem. But to me it looks like normal consumption that we all have seen that went unchecked.
Direction of the flow does not matter, because the whole system is filled with one substance (oil) and under pressure.Not to put words in Vincent's mouth, but the screen has 5 sides, so 20% per side, lose one side, down to 80% flow, but it's the side in the direction of the flow, so take off another 10%. Back of napkin math, not exact fluid mechanics, but probably fairly close.
There is no air, gas or anything else in the system, so there cant be any void, only areas of higher and lower pressure.
Hmm.. so you agree that the defect is this car not having a “low oil” light then?? Seems pretty freakin’ short sighted not to put a low oil light/sensor in a car with an engine apparently known to burn oil. I mean, if you can afford to put a “low windshield wiper fluid” sensor in a car, you would think that a “low oil” sensor might be a little higher on the priority list, wouldn’t you?That is exactly what I am saying. It is so common that they point it out in the manual. It is common across the board with the nearly dozen OEM I test engines with regularly. Brand new crate engine always need top off for the first few thousand miles. After that they can run tens of thousands of miles without losing any. Every german car, especially the turbo models lose a TON of oil during break in. Many enough to trigger the "low oil" light. On those cars it typically continues the life of the car. Its so common they equip them with LOW OIL LIGHTS.
Experiences vary and maybe there was a problem. But to me it looks like normal consumption that we all have seen that went unchecked.
Regardless, I am still waiting on the full story on this particular engine.
Well - not the pan. Your analysis presumes that the intake tube is completely submerged.Direction of the flow does not matter, because the whole system is filled with one substance (oil) and under pressure.
There is no air, gas or anything else in the system, so there cant be any void, only areas of higher and lower pressure.
And it does matter. Here’s my question- why is it that in all of the pics we have seen is all of the loose RTV stuck on the top screen?? Especially since, from a gravity standpoint, this is the screen that should have the least amount of RTV stuck to it?? My thought is that because that is the direction of least resistance.
Of course the flow flows in that direction, if unblocked, ebcause its the direct way, but when the direct way is blocked the "next direct way" becomes "direct".Well - not the pan. Your analysis presumes that the intake tube is completely submerged.
And it does matter. Here’s my question- why is it that in all of the pics we have seen is all of the loose RTV stuck on the top screen?? Especially since, from a gravity standpoint, this is the screen that should have the least amount of RTV stuck to it?? My thought is that because that is the direction of least resistance.
Sorry, my english is too abd to explain it better, but you have to keep in mkind, that the full liquid is in move, not only parts of it.
I agree with you. The pick up tube can more than likely handle a lot higher volume than the pump needs to pull. So the direction of flow doesn't really matter. That extra 10% is more a factor of safety than because of the direction of flow.Direction of the flow does not matter, because the whole system is filled with one substance (oil) and under pressure.
There is no air, gas or anything else in the system, so there cant be any void, only areas of higher and lower pressure.
For science, someone buy a pick up tube, put a gallon oil on top and see how fast it goes through. Then partially block the tube and run it again. There are a lot of variables that would be hard to replicate outside the engine, but it'd be cool to see the results.
Many factors why a dealer would deny a warranty. I just do not see the business case for a dealer to reject or deny a customer? Doesn't Toyota give kick back at the dealer? Does the dealer lose money?
That test under the flow of gravity would not represent what happens during operation. As mentioned previously the positive displacement oil pump will move a fixed amount of oil per revolution of the pump. Its getting pulled through that screen, not just dripping through it like a coffee pot.I agree with you. The pick up tube can more than likely handle a lot higher volume than the pump needs to pull. So the direction of flow doesn't really matter. That extra 10% is more a factor of safety than because of the direction of flow.
For science, someone buy a pick up tube, put a gallon oil on top and see how fast it goes through. Then partially block the tube and run it again. There are a lot of variables that would be hard to replicate outside the engine, but it'd be cool to see the results.
100% agree with you. Lot of factors that would make testing outside the engine basically pointless, I would just be curious to see the difference with only gravity pushing it through.That test under the flow of gravity would not represent what happens during operation. As mentioned previously the positive displacement oil pump will move a fixed amount of oil per revolution of the pump. Its getting pulled through that screen, not just dripping through it like a coffee pot.
I agree. I am still on the trust, but VERIFY part of the story.…… I just don't see any Dealer/TMNA saying that he isn't entitled to see that - especially since in every other case we know about, the owner definitely saw this stuff. I think until he/we see that, I am going to throw this in - interesting unsubstantiated fish story...
Additionally, low engine oil, especially if the engine is close to running dry would give off some warning, especially something audible ie grinding/clackety sounds etc.
Until I see the paperwork showing the actual warranty denial, I am going to treat this as a trolling exercise. I will however check my oil even more frequently.
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